[Bob Kuczewski]

From: Bob Kuczewski
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 13:28:33 -0700
Local: Wed, Aug 11 2010 1:28 pm
Subject: Re: [HGAA: 16] org needed
---
There's a fellow on hanggliding.org who goes by the name of "gluesniffer", and he once wrote:

"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it"

I felt that statement was so important that I made it my signature line on hanggliding.org and several other sites.

Barry is absolutely right!!

[JoeF]

From: JoeF
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 16:48:15 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Aug 11 2010 4:48 pm
Subject: Re: org needed
---
Barry Palmatier
Aeros Phantom

[Bob Kuczewski]

From: bobk
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 10:49:08 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sun, Aug 15 2010 10:49 am
Subject: US Hawks Hang Gliding Association
---
Hello Members of the HGAA Discussion Group,

I had great hopes for the HGAA, but I've been disappointed with the results.

On the other hand, if there's room for 2 national organizations, then there might be room for 3.

So I've started the US Hawks Hang Gliding Association, and its web site is http://USHawks.org .

The US Hawks is designed to be a more distributed model based on local chapters being better integrated with the national organization. The USHPA model does have local chapters but they are not really central to the organization. I think that's upside down, and so I'm trying to put more focus on chapters with the US Hawks. As with the HGAA, this is an experiment in finding a better way to promote and organize the sport of hang gliding. It might succeed or fail, but either way, the exploration itself has value.

There are two ways to get involved with the US Hawks. One way is to simply visit our web site and participate on our forum as an individual. The other way is to work to increase our number of chapters by either inviting your existing chapter to join the US Hawks or by starting a local chapter on your own.

Either way, I hope you'll participate in this new experiment, and I wish you the best in flying.

Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski
858-204-7499
bobkuczewski@gmail.com

[Bob Kuczewski]

From: Bob Kuczewski
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 00:17:34 -0700
Local: Sat, Aug 28 2010 12:17 am
Subject: Announcing the US Hawks Hang Gliding Association web site...
---
For immediate release (please post anywhere you like):

The U.S. Hawks Hang Gliding Association announces the official opening of the USHawks.org web site. The US Hawks is intended to be a national association of hang glider pilots and clubs working together to support the sport of hang gliding throughout the United States. In furtherance of that goal, the US Hawks web site will initially focus on building open forums for discussion among those who have an interest and a stake in hang gliding in the United States.

The US Hawks forums are open to members and non-members alike. Anyone interested in the future of hang gliding is welcome to join in. The main forum is currently broken into 4 major subsections:

US Hawks National (Hang Gliding General and Building the US Hawks)
US Hawks Chapters (contains a subforum for each US Hawks Chapter)
US Hawks History (a place to collect information about the US Hawks)
Off Topic Soap Box (for posting of non-Hawks articles and comments)

The US Hawks certainly welcomes new members and new chapters. There is no cost to join at this time, and all points of view are welcome. There is a FAQ section of the forum which contains answers to questions - which were never really "frequently asked" - but might be helpful just the same.

Please stop by and say "Hi", or write back with any questions or comments.

Bob Kuczewski
Founder of the US Hawks Hang Gliding Association

==============================================
Screen shot from "Hang Gliding General" forum at http://ushawks.org :

US_Hawks_Grand_Opening_small.png (28.11 KiB) Viewed 8429 times

I think that was the last post to the HGAA Discussion Group on Google Groups. Most everyone posting there has begun using the US Hawks forum since that time.

[Bob Kuczewski]

As each U.S. Hawks birthday arrives, I find myself looking back to rediscover the seeds of our organization. Each year I see more clearly with the hindsight won by another year of living.

This year (2019) I was struck by Joe Faust's message written on August 9th, 2010. In his message, Joe highlights both the recreational land use laws and the appropriate use of waivers. That was nearly 7 years to the day before we both flew at Dockweiler under just such an agreement with Los Angeles County.

Joe Faust is an amazing spirit, and I am forever grateful for his friendship.

Thank you Joe!!!

From: Joe Faust
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 16:51:24 -0700
Local: Mon, Aug 9 2010 4:51 pm
Subject: New org consideration on land use
---
Ray,
*Thanks for reply and questions*.
The movement is pre-embryonic; there is no organization yet. The discussion is ongoing in four places, at lease. Hence, such is not my org; I am a messenger/publisher. Anyone interested in seeing what might be done to have an org fully focussed on framed and frame-controlled hang gliders is welcome to join the discussion. Your questions are spot-on and would be helpful.

My personal solutions have little weight; *the evolving org will find its own way.* A revisiting of the full meaning of waivers might go a long way in setting aside landowner risks. When a recreationist uses a property without waiver *without being invited* by a landowner, there may not be any liabilities involved for the landowner. Add on that a sound waiver by the recreationist and things get quite clear that the recreationist takes all the responsibilities for himself or herself. Commercial relationships with landowners begin to take on a different character.

Holding oneself responsible for all the damages one might do to properties and persons from one's actions affects the character of one's flying habits, planning, and execution. Whether one wants third-party insurance or not to cover the risk of injuring people's properties or persons who are not involved in hang gliding is a distinct consideration in itself that has pros and cons; does a system of such insurance increase or decrease overall safety of hang glider pilots? :: I have not seen proof either way, but such question might be important for eventual answering. Hard to know are any payouts from third-party insurance to non-hang gliding persons because of actions by hang glider pilots; so far, my file is empty on this matter, but a huge amount of money has been given to insurance companies for such coverage. If I injure a fence, then I would pay for the fence repair. If I hurt a public person, then I would be responsible for the injury; I plan my flights so that I will not injure people or property. My habit is to improve properties that I use. Groups of pilots frequestly act to improve properties that they are privileged to use.

http://groups.google.com/group/hgaa FOR THE DISCUSSION.

Best of lift to you and yours, Ray,
JoeF


On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Flyhangliders wrote:

> Joe;
> How would/does your new organization take care of landowners who need to
> protect their property while allowing us the opportunity to fly? How would
> you meet that challenge? Ray Berger
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Faust
> To: Flyhangliders
> Sent: Sun, Aug 8, 2010 8:34 am
> Subject: [HG] Help form a national "frame-controlled" hang gliding organization
>
> The mission statement is only embryonic by a growing number of hang glider
> people. One tack regards having a national org serving string-controlled
> limp-canopy gliders and one org that rises to serve hang gliders that have
> frame-control via direct coupling with pilot's hands and in which the
> glider
> has framed shaping. Those bringing on the coming mission statement and
> more are discussing matters.
> Lift,
> JoeF.
>
> __,_._,___

[Bob Kuczewski]

We are coming up on 14 years since we founded the U.S. Hawks. To raise awareness of our history, I am "bumping" this topic which contains posts from a Google Group started as a continuation of the HGAA after it was hijacked by the administrator of the original HGAA web site. The HGAA is now defunct, along with the Google Group and similar Yahoo Group (both started in July/August of 2010). All of that history appears to be gone except for what any of us might have saved. Here are the (now defunct) links to those groups:

       http://groups.google.com/group/hgaa
       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HGAofAmerica

This year I'd like to honor Scott's original message to the group. Scott's message back in 2010 was clear and simple. I believe the U.S. Hawks has stayed true to his vision. Thanks Scott!

Welcome to the HGAA’s alternate communication group.

Our ultimate goal is to preserve and promote the sport of hang gliding.

The Method? To give every member, new and old, the opportunity to voice their interests and concerns; for the leaders within this Association to encourage and embrace respectful two way communications with their brothers and sisters within the hang gliding community.

Our Philosophy? The value of the Association is no greater than the value of every member. The respect due the Association is no greater than the respect that the Association owes its individual members.

The direction of the Association will always remain open and transparent to every member. Every member has a right to contribute, in some way, to that direction. No member, or group of members, may determine the direction of the Association without the clear approval of a majority of the membership.

With the successful creation of a solid foundation, the glide path to our ultimate goal will involve far fewer obstacles.