u$hPa BOD Reform Vote

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Re: u$hPa BOD Reform Vote

Postby SamKellner » Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:38 pm

wingspan33 wrote: Sam, I am wondering what anti-U$hPa video Paul Voight has put out.


As I understand, Paul was the creator of the "Vote No" video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csuMgDh ... pp=desktop

Even the instructors of this caliber, once entrenched in the coolaid pitcher, are finally giving up on the false teachings of u$hPa.

So far I've not found out who the pilot? RD? was who brought forth the voting/ballot irregularities that forced the re-vote. Was it Paul?

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Re: u$hPa BOD Reform Vote

Postby SamKellner » Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:19 pm

https://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59331

Quote Davis:
Death by a thousand cuts

For me, personally, the USHPA works great. I have excellent interactions with Beth Van Eaton regarding all my competition requirements. I work with volunteer Mitch Shipley on the Tow Device Supplement Applications, but then he lives at Wilotree Park part time. I send our competition results in to volunteer David Wheeler. Volunteer Jamie Shelden contacts me regarding membership on the national team.

The incident report system is up and running. It's easy to renew my membership. Same for Belinda's family membership. We, obviously, have very specialized needs when it comes to dealing with the USHPA.

But the bigger concerns are with both the short and long term health of hang gliding and our association Steve Pearson has some concerns about how the USHPA is handling these bigger concerns. He writes:

Quote Steve Pearsonn1):
There has been an extraordinary amount of discussion and good ideas shared over the last 20 years. (2) These ideas and efforts have been ineffective at arresting the decline of hang gliding.

I would argue that there is no recipe that the USHPA can conceive of that is likely to be adopted and implemented by, or even that is even helpful to a successful school. That's not to say that the ideas are flawed, but that they are in conflict with our experience. Make a list of the top schools in the last 45 years—KHK, Lookout, Windsports, Mission, Morningside, Wallaby, etc. and ask if any of them would have been receptive to adopting a USHPA business plan for managing their business. Every school and community is unique—what works in Kitty Hawk is different from Morningside, LA, Chattanooga and San Francisco. The ideas that have been shared are a great resource for schools to consider for business development, but they are not a stand-alone solution.

I'm suggesting that revisiting this subject with clean whiteboards and new participants is unlikely to do any better—we are looking at this from the wrong perspective. It's like trying to push a rope uphill—forcing top-down management on a system that doesn't respond to that approach.

Let's recognize that new pilots only come from flight schools (rather than marketing programs). That the root of our problem is that sustaining a flight school is near impossible, and compliance with the rules, regulations and expenses imposed by the USHPA is a significant burden. And ultimately, the only mechanism for stabilizing hang gliding is to make teaching both easier and more rewarding.

There are a couple of familiar refrains that we need to address head-on: (1) commercial interests are in conflict with the best interests of the association and (2) ideas for promoting growth are too expensive or otherwise subordinate to other priorities.

1. There is a direct and immutable correlation between the health, safety and vitality of every hang gliding community and the status of the local flight school. When flight schools close, even thriving communities of pilots diminish within a few short years. I can't even think of any exceptions to this. Schools, more than any other factor, are the foundation of our association and we need to stop seeing them as beneficiaries and sources of revenue. We should be supporting them, not taxing them.

2. How can we pretend to have be successful association with unrelenting declining membership? Membership is the only product that the USHPA sells, and all of the associated services are to support membership. We could argue that there are a lot of metrics to evaluate the performance of a business, but I can't imagine not including product sales. Most successful and sustainable businesses invest the majority of their discretionary resources in product development and those who don't more-often fail. That's not to say that investing in product development is any guarantee, just a fundamental requirement.

Why don't we try something different, like investing in and listening to individuals who have demonstrated aptitude and commitment to achieving our goals? Instead of analyzing and dictating the minutia of how to run a successful flight school, why not ask our instructors, “what can we do to help?” What incentives (product and services) can we offer to achieve the outcome we want (growth and pilot retention)?

What specific actions can the USHPA implement develop hang gliding, i.e. to support schools ?

1) Provide financial incentives for the development of new pilots. I'm suggesting that a program like rebating the entire 1st year membership fee, and 50% of the second year would relatively increase membership and long-term income for the USHPA. It would also focus the efforts of schools on making pilots rather than other income opportunities like tandem rides.

2) Mandate a reduction in the administrative burden of PASA/RRRG compliance.

3) Reduce the instructor fee, and perhaps even make the first year free.

4) Provide funds and support for instructor clinics rather than requiring participant to organize and pay for them. Wills Wing did this for years—we paid for Tim Morely, Jim Shaw and others to give clinics around the country. More flight schools = more pilots = more glider sales.

5) Reduce the administrative costs and requirements for sanction competitions.

6) Eliminate all fees and requirements for local chapters to hold fly-ins and other community events.

I don't mean this to be an exhaustive list, just the first things that occurred to me. Certainly we can do better than this?

Finally, these new policies don't address the structural problems with hang gliding like how long it takes to learn, or the physical requirements, or the inconvenience of carrying and storing bulky equipment. That's for us to solve.


So now we have the manufacturers speaking up also !

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Re: u$hPa BOD Reform Vote

Postby Bill Cummings » Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:22 pm

Bob can you make the link work?
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Re: u$hPa BOD Reform Vote

Postby SamKellner » Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:35 pm

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Re: u$hPa BOD Reform Vote

Postby wingspan33 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:55 pm

SamKellner wrote:
wingspan33 wrote: Sam, I am wondering what anti-U$hPa video Paul Voight has put out.


As I understand, Paul was the creator of the "Vote No" video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csuMgDh ... pp=desktop

Even the instructors of this caliber, once entrenched in the coolaid pitcher, are finally giving up on the false teachings of u$hPa.

So far I've not found out who the pilot? RD? was who brought forth the voting/ballot irregularities that forced the re-vote. Was it Paul?

:wave:


Thanks Sam,

I know Paul quite well and the voice on the video is not him. But he could have gotten somebody else to do the audio. Paul's son Ryan is college educated in videography so he probably could have managed the graphics. But IF they were involved then the voice over (which is neither Paul or Ryan) is obviously meant to make people wonder who the "producer" of the video was. Due to the unfamiliar voice over I would actually have (at least some) doubts that Paul was involved. Somebody might recognize the voice in the video and they may then have an idea of its origins.
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Re: u$hPa BOD Reform Vote

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:20 am

SamKellner wrote:As a non member and US Hawks, are we cheering the members vote   yes   and the Reform passes ?????


I've had mixed feelings on this proposal.

On one hand, I think the proposed concentration of power is bad. On the other hand, that concentration of power already exists because the USHPA Board members have all been spineless followers of Mark Forbes and Tim Herr for a long time.

Mark Forbes couldn't even win an election in his own region, so what did the USHPA Board do? They made him a "Director at Large" to keep him in power.

Here's the question that I posted to this topic back on January 15th:

On January 15th, 2019, Bob Kuczewski wrote:Director _____,
It's clear that this new governance proposal (and USHPA's recent loss of insurance) reflect an organization that's in deep trouble. The organization got itself in that deep trouble under the current governance and largely with the current Directors. If the current Board wants to stay in place, can each of you tell us what you would do in the future that differs from what you did in the past that got us here? Do YOU personally think YOU'VE voted for any of the things that brought us to this point of desperation? And if you can't tell us that, then why should we keep the status quo?


As far as I can tell, that question still hasn't been asked of any current Directors.

So here's my take on the whole thing. If there are a significant number of current Directors willing to admit that they've made mistakes and are willing to make amends for those mistakes, then they should be given a second chance. If they're not willing to admit to the mistakes that got us to this disaster, then they should all be flushed ... with USHPA itself going down the toilet after them.

This is a perspective that hasn't been posted on the other major forums (Jack and Davis shows) and their muzzling of speech (banning, locking, manipulating) is also a big part of the problem.
"People talk about the sport of hang gliding dying. It's not dying. It's being murdered. By the U$hPA." - Rick Masters

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Re: u$hPa BOD Reform Vote

Postby wingspan33 » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:27 pm

Sam, I would say to vote NO to anyone who's still a U$hPa member. Bob has some good points (above) but I think a tiny directorship of a Large National Org is a bad idea. I do think the current directors need a slap in the face to wake them up and this (bad) restructuring plan might do it.

Oh, and I spoke with Paul Voight a couple days ago and he was not involved with the making of the "Vote No" video, but he does agree with it. He has a page long rebuttal of his own on his Fly High Hang Gliding web site. Here - < http://flyhighhg.com/about-paul/ >
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Re: u$hPa BOD Reform Vote

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sat May 18, 2019 2:08 am

Back on January 15th (in this topic), I suggested that USHPA members should ask their Directors what they would do differently to have prevented all of the recent USHPA disasters (and that was before the double deaths at Torrey in March). Since Tiki had spoken up at my expulsion hearing (but voted for the expulsion anyway), I thought I'd see what she had to say. Here's my recent message to Tiki:

The unanswered question from Jan 15, 2019:

https://ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php ... 171#p25249

Director __Mashy__,

It's clear that this new governance proposal (and USHPA's recent loss of insurance) reflect an organization that's in deep trouble. The organization got itself in that deep trouble under the current governance and largely with the current Directors. If the current Board wants to stay in place, can each of you tell us what you would do in the future that differs from what you did in the past that got us here? Do YOU personally think YOU'VE voted for any of the things that brought us to this point of desperation? And if you can't tell us that, then why should we keep the status quo?


I'll post any answer I get.

I personally suspect that this entire "governance proposal" may be a public relations stunt by USHPA to rekindle some loyalty from the members toward the current Board. They may have cooked up this Frankenstein "governance proposal" to cause members to defend the status quo. With something as ugly as the new proposal on the table, the current Board starts looking a bit better.

If that's the case, then the Board might have been surprised (horrified) when it actually passed. That would account for the "do over" vote which may now be rigged to ensure that the status quo prevails.

Nothing surprises me any more. :(
"People talk about the sport of hang gliding dying. It's not dying. It's being murdered. By the U$hPA." - Rick Masters

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Re: u$hPa BOD Reform Vote

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sat May 18, 2019 11:09 am

From the hanggliding.org topic: USHPA IS IN THE RED- EXECUTIVE PAY INCRESES AS MEMBERSHIP SHRINKS -OVERSIGHT:

USHPA7 (Frank Colver) wrote:I hope this discussion doesn't get anyone expelled from USHPA, so that they can never fly an insured site again - like someone I know. 
 
Frank Colver

Dave replies:

DAVE 858 wrote:You can be expelled for talking trash on the internet?

Frank confirms:
USHPA7 (Frank Colver) wrote:Absolutely! #1 reason given for this person's expulsion was that he formed a competing organization to USHPA, which in reality was only an internet site critical of USHPA's policies. It was not even breaking a rule in the published SOP's of USHPA. I guess you can call it an "unwritten rule".

FC

"Mavi Gogun" doesn't want the expulsion topic discussed:
Mavi Gogun wrote:Like the use of wheels or full face helmets, while worthy of discussion, the expulsion topic is here a digression.

Dave comes back:
DAVE 858 wrote:Ok, what in the hell do any of you propose be done about any of this? I will say this much, I'm not surprised by this in the least bit, and they've got me until the next price increase and thats it. I think there are a lot of people who share this same view point. People are only going to pay so much for a product that, lets face it, they don't really need.

Miraclepieco makes the strong point that pilots should abandon USHPA:
miraclepieco wrote:Time to kill this parasite on hang gliding and start afresh. If everyone does not renew, the Ass. will fold in one year and we can fly without coercion. 

USHPA regulations have stifled hang gliding. FAA Part 103 is the sole regulation required by the US government - no fees, no membership, no ratings, no insurance. 

Kill this parasite on our sport - don't renew.

"Mavi Gogun" (lacking any real argument) launches a typical personal attack. Notice how he uses the imagery of isolation ("Guys? Guys- where ya go'n? Guys?") to put down their arguments without actually addressing them:
Mavi Gogun wrote:You sound like the kid who didn't get invited to the party. "Hey, you guys- you know what would be cool? - if no one went to Jason's party. All that left over cold pizza, warm beer. It will be so great. Guys? Guys- where ya go'n? Guys?"

It's not for you, everybody gets that -but this invitation to join your grievance-pity-party is just lame. Pretending as though there aren't compelling needs fulfilled, however imperfectly, by the Association- as though folks just pony up the money out of habit -is absurd. How long has it been now, you hitting this one bitter note on the piano, over and over? It ain't compelling.

Mtpilot properly ignores "Mavi" and gets back on track:
mtpilot wrote:miraclepieco is right. You can't fix USHPA, every fix just makes it worse. It's way past time to start over. Consider we are just paying dues to a paragliding org. The majority of the rules, problems, additional insurance/expense seems to come from commercial activity like towing not free flight. We have no say or any way of finding out what is really going on in USHPA. Trying to follow the money reveals the real purpose of USHPA is to provide high income for a select few inc producing a worthless magazine. Like the BOD vote will fix anything? We are all tired of hearing about it but nothing gets done because it can't fix itself. Meanwhile most are held hostage by the THREAT of insurance.

All that "Mavi Gogun" can do is continue to attack the person:
Mavi Gogun wrote:When did you hold office?

Hey "Mavi", I held office in 2009 and 2010. I called out the problems like lack of oversight at Torrey and no accountability of elected Directors. I reported problems that could have saved USHPA's insurance program. But the USHPA insiders kept backing their cronies ... right into the ground. USHPA expelled me for a number of reasons (silence me, keep me from running as Regional Director, cull me from the herd, make an example to intimidate others ...), and they are reaping the comsequences of their retaliation: two dead at Torrey just this past March (2019).
"People talk about the sport of hang gliding dying. It's not dying. It's being murdered. By the U$hPA." - Rick Masters

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Re: u$hPa BOD Reform Vote

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sat May 18, 2019 3:37 pm

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59699&start=23

Swift wrote:
Mtpilot wrote:We can debate ideas on and on OR demand the facts, complete disclosure of financials, accidents, lawsuits, settlements, salaries and expenses.
Who cares how many on the BOD if they are flying blind with no real information?

The BOD has been manipulated and controlled forever. Two days of being shuffled from room to room in hotels near skiing, flying, alcohol and fancy dinners. 
Some have talked about how guilty they feel about it. Slam bam and thank you mam. Just sign here, here and here… here's your money, here's your bribe, here's your special interest payback for not asking for true accountability. 
These BOD meetings have been facilitated by corporatists schooled in the Delphi Method. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_method 

Everybody goes home with a hang over, a lot of money is spent, the Executive gets a raise, someone sells another computer system for hundreds of thousands of dollars and probably gets the newly created IT job to run it and the membership keeps donating and paying increased dues because the Delphi facilitator told the trusting/naive BOD Representatives that it was a "dire" situation. Again and again. 

It doesn't make much difference if the new 'governance proposal' passes or not. 
We have already lost the Association to the Corporation. 
The preservation and growth of hang gliding is not the first priority to the Corporation.
The preservation and growth of the Corporation is the first priority of the Corporation that stole our Hang Gliding Organization.


Amen. Amen. Amen.

This is exactly what happens. I saw it with my own eyes. When I was Director, I refused ALL compensation (bribes). I paid my own travel and lodging. Look it up. You won't find one dime of compensation requested or accepted by me. I stood for the pilots, and I wasn't there to steal from them behind their backs. I suppose that made it all the more enjoyable for the other (corrupted) Directors to expel me and drag my name through the mud with bogus claims.

The reference to the "Delphi method" was also very good. From the Wikipedia link:

Wikipedia wrote:A particular weakness of the Delphi method is that future developments are not always predicted correctly by consensus of experts. This shortcoming concerning the issue of ignorance is important. If panelists are misinformed about a topic, the use of Delphi may only add confidence to their ignorance.


"Misinformed", and "confident yet ignorant" are good descriptions of the USHPA Board.

Great Job Swift!!!

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"People talk about the sport of hang gliding dying. It's not dying. It's being murdered. By the U$hPA." - Rick Masters

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