SWTHG Hangar @ 49R

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Re: SWTHG Hangar @ 49R

Postby SamKellner » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:26 am

billcummings wrote: Sam. I do constant TX :thumbup:


10-4 Bill in NM

What do you think of all the new towing SOPs that came out of the Austin, Tx. :) BOD meeting.

Several opinions say it was a result of the recent Nevada deaths at Jean Lake, and focus on the supposed lack of driver skills.

So u$hPa comes up with more regulation on instructors doing first day ST instruction.

So far I haven't seen any mention of how the tandem joy ride instructors were at any fault by possibly exceeding/abusing the tandem exemption.
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Re: SWTHG Hangar @ 49R

Postby SamKellner » Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:50 pm

Hawks,

Here is the link to the Yahoo towing group and the message Gregg Ludwig posted, from Riss Estes.

As you can see, Riss blames the new SOPs on the Jean Lake accident. Also seems to focus on drivers.

Please read the other recent messages from Garrett. Because of the new requirements that all crew must be ushpa tow tech certified, he might give up his hopes/plans to teach HG, for the love of the sport, not for profit, because, ......

he seems to have run onto the same road block of tow tech clinics not being offered in his area because the quote:
commercial tandem admins don't want the competition.


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/sky ... sages/8551

No one can deny that the Groupon joy ride tandems are exposing the masses to what HG and pg is all about. That's about all I can say that's good.

But recognizing the harmful side effects is like some of todays drug adverts on tv.

1. commercial tandem admins don't want the competition.

2. tandem exemption abuse like Jean Lake and that other flying site in San Diego, :)
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Re: SWTHG Hangar @ 49R

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:43 pm

Hi Sam,

I don't have a Yahoo account, and (unlike the US Hawks) I couldn't read anything without logging in. I'm very interested in the topic, so if you can summarize or post some quotes, that would be great.

Thanks,
Bob
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Re: SWTHG Hangar @ 49R

Postby SamKellner » Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:06 am

Gregg Ludwig

Oct 19 1:18 PM
The USHPA semi-annual board meeting was in Austin this week. It turns out that this and other towing issues were already on the agenda (due in part to recent HG surface towing fatalities).

Summary:

(1) Originally, Tow Tech was a PG-only rating (which explains why the USHPA office once denied a Tow Tech appointment for a HG pilot that I'd submitted).

(2) At some point more recently, that policy was informally changed, in part because the Standard Operating Procedures for towing stuff at USHPA were never properly written, and the rules didn't explicitly state that a Tow Tech had to be a PG pilot. (For that matter, the rules didn't even require that the Tow Tech be a USHPA member. I feel certain that never actually happened because it seems so obvious, but it does indicate how inadequate the towing regs were.)

(3) None of the above matters anymore because a lot is changing. As of the board vote yesterday...
< br> (a) There are now PG Tow Techs and HG Tow Techs, and you cannot hold a Tow Tech rating for an aircraft for which you do not also hold at least a P2/H2. (I don't know what the process is going to be for any HG pilots that currently have Tow Tech ratings - they may be revoked soonish or maybe just not renewed. If you're in this situation, contact USHPA.)

(b) An appropriate Tow Tech rating is mandatory for all student training and for tandems because USHPA's insurance touches those. During teaching and tandems, it's also required that there be eyes on the pilot at all times and be able to cut the rope -- so, one person can't drive and run a tow rig at the same time anymore. The Tech can train and use someone to help accomplish all of these these best practice, however, so there's some leeway. See the upcoming SOP update for the specifics if you're teaching, doing tandems, or towing tandems.

(c) As before, whatever consenting adults want to do on their own (i.e. not teaching, not tandem, no site insurance, nothing to do with USHPA's insurance) is up to them. (Not following the above best practices and having everyone is properly trained and rated may be asking for trouble, however.)

(d) Insurance for towing (surface towing and aerotowing) is a pending probability for next year. Assuming it does come, consenting adults won't be able to do what they like you'll have to stick to the best practices rules for insurance to cover the operation.

(e) Formal towing instruction materials, training requirements, and written/observed proficiency testing for both PG and (separately for) HG is coming. (No more inadequate Tow Tech training.) It will be a prerequisite for the aforementioned insurance and probably take a ye ar to roll out.

Riss
Last edited by SamKellner on Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SWTHG Hangar @ 49R

Postby SamKellner » Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:09 am

Garrett

USHPA is making it more and more impossible for remote clubs like us to comply with all the ratings and stuff.

How the hell am I going to go and get a tow-tech sign off? It is like pulling teeth to get any tandem clinics or anything like that as it is right now.

Org is making it harder for me to fly.
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Re: SWTHG Hangar @ 49R

Postby SamKellner » Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:13 am

Garrett

Oct 20 3:32 PM
I was teaching. Was planning to teach free HG lessons. Not anymore
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Re: SWTHG Hangar @ 49R

Postby SamKellner » Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:14 am

Garrett

Oct 20 6:45 PM
I was planning to use payout winch to take people tandem then work with them on the training hill that USHPA helped me open (they do do some good things).

I hear you on abuse of tandem exemption, seems like all those commercial tandem guys are also tandem administrators and do not want to hold clinics because it will open up competition for them. just wanna teach for free. We have several trike pilots that want to transition.

I cant make it work.
I will just continue to do tandems/help people out without the ratings/tow tech thing.
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Re: SWTHG Hangar @ 49R

Postby SamKellner » Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:16 am

Gregg Ludwig

Oct 20 7:32 PM
Garrett, I feel your statement is so untrue but would be interested to learn how you arrive at this conclusion. Do you feel this way about your instructor, Jon Thompson, who is a commercial tandem instructor and administrator? I hope not.
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Re: SWTHG Hangar @ 49R

Postby SamKellner » Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:17 am

Garrett

Oct 20 7:45 PM
No. I never mentioned Jon Thompson! John Thompson is great! I never took lessons with him though.

Please don't put words in my mouth. Why even bring him up? Am I missing something?
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Re: SWTHG Hangar @ 49R

Postby SamKellner » Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:19 am

Gregg Ludwig

Oct 20 10:04 PM
Just asking Garrett as you wrote:

"I hear you on abuse of tandem exemption, seems like all those commercial tandem guys are also tandem administrators and do not want to hold clinics because it will open up competition for them".on Thompson is a commercial tandem instructor and tandem administrator so just wondered if you lumped him in with the other Administrators in reference to your comment above. I mention Jon because he issued your H-4 last year so you must know him. I think you are unfair to write of Administrators as you have without any supporting evidence.

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