US Hawks Hang Gliding Association

For 2012,the rancher is raising the rent and dropping the road maintenance. The yearly, actually 9mo, lease for this 450ft hill is/has been $8,000.0 a year No camping. No campfires. 4x4 road, most often, if that. Power lines near launch. RF tower near launch.

Located ~50mi west of Austin, since late '70s?, most convenient for the Austin "Free Flight Assn",sound familiar?, members.

Each year the membership drive recruits pilots from all over Reg11. The more members that join Pack the less each member has to pay, still usually ~ $250ea.

The old establishment has really benefitted most, those living close or having convenient accomodations.

IMO, when the $8,000. is subtracted from the overall total revenues that could be generated by Reg11 members, it is clearly obvious why there are so few active flying sites in the state of Tx.

Here's what Riss, USHPA Foundationfor Free Flight director and Reg11 director at large, had to say when he realized that the poll and hot topic was viewable by public.

from Austin Free Flight forum:

Riss » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:43 am
I was able to view the results of this poll while logged out.
This forum and the results are publicly viewable.
Way to go, people. Riss

Typical U* insider, keep it secret, hush-hush. This topic is now viewable by members only.

However:
The newer pilots now moving into Reg11 have broadened the horizon and recognise the detriment of >30yr.

from AFFA forum: by jlepardfly » Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:52 pm

my two cents worth. pull the plug on pack and form a first class towing and tow training group. have a sunshine law that states that the winches never leave the barn unless all members are given notice so every one may plan or not plan to fly.have monthly tow training sessions.there are thousands of miles of towable roads in this state the don't all have to be in austins back yard. a few thoughts on pack. at any time the owners could sell it and kill it, or use the fly site to boost the sell price as a plus. dollar wise my time is best spent going else where to fly (buffalo mt okl.) west tx n.m. because of multipul launch sites in same area. a day fee should be used for pack if one lives realy far away the ldd works if you have second home in the area.we can never guess the weather, but you can move a winch and not the mountian.for me pack hase been an expense place to go meditate.thanks james lepard
jlepardfly

And all to often, this is the welcome extended by AFFA/Pack, to newcomers, after they get your $$.

by walkabout » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:52 am

Greetings. I will not be renewing my membership. Since I am not welcome to fly with my South African license it serves no purpose. It seems easier to fly in Europe and South America than Texas. I have flown in Spain, Italy, Austria, Germany, South Africa, Switzerland and Canada before moving to Texas. I joined AFFA and was told afterward by AFFA that even though I had joined USHpa and obtained the insurance I could not fly at PAC until I obtained a US recertification. I contacted every school listed for Texas Including those instructors in Austin and never received a response from anyone. Amazing that I can fly virtually anywhere in the world, without much hassle except here. No worries though, I will return to flying in Europe where we are welcome. Good luck to you all.P

Having worked for years to establish additional footlaunch sites in Tx, I will say the AFFA/Pack has offered opposition/sabotage and viewed my efforts as competition.
Letting go of PackSaddle would probably do a lot more good for flying in Reg11.


Sam

Before you all pull the pin maybe you should print this thread and mail it to the landowner. Let the landowner know that 8K is a bit excessive for the pilots and who else would be interested in leasing anywhere near that amount and leave as light of a foot print? (Hill climbing dirt bikes?)

Hi Bill,

Rent an apartment or buy a house? That should have been asked ~15yr ago and we would own at least one flight park.
That bunch has some strange decision making process.

I have been a member once in '06.

I said clear and the idiot stood there talking to the wing man.
I risked my own safety to keep from knocking that moron off the ramp.
It was such a close call. I'll find others to fly with.

It won't effect me much one way or the other.

Too bad the rent paid for that bunnyhill is such a large part of the state's total resources that are generated anually by R11 pilots.

This is a good topic of discussion Sam and Bill!!

Sam, et al

It saddens me to hear words so filled with dislike and distrust; and worst of all, an apparent lack of understanding of what Pack truly is...

Simply put, Pack is home to the two finest foot launch sites in Central Texas. If you have any idea of how to properly read forecasts, success rates for flying should be better than 80%. The hill is soarable in conditions ranging from SW to S to SE to NE to N and wind speeds of 15-25 mph. Both sites have produced many 100 mile flights. It is centrally located to and easily accessible by more than 2 million people. Even so, the most pilot members it has ever had has always hovered around 50. That we want to preserve and protect such an incredible flying site in our own freakin back yard should bring praise, not admonishment. Ya'll should be ashamed of yourselves thinking, much less expressing, such nonsense. And accuse us of making off with your resources...uuuhh...it our money dude. Hell, I always spent more on tow fees in a few days at your wonderful "Texas Fly-In" than it costs to fly Pack for the entire season! Not to mention the income we brought to that sleepy little town. Get real. How about telling us why there is no longer a Texas Fly In Sam? It certainly was not the fault of us long distance pilots who came from litteraly all around the world to support your fly-in. In fact it was because we understood the importance of site development and preservation that we always came Sam. And not once, not ever, did we begrudge your success.

Pack is NOT AFFA!!! AFFA is NOT Pack!!! AFFA is simply the only organization that has taken up the task of continuing a long standing flying tradition at Pack. Anyone who thinks any flying site should be left to die or go away does not understand the real nature of what is probably the most serious situation facing hang gliding today. SITE PRESERVATION.

To say that Pack is somehow making off with the money from Region 11 is a joke. Have you priced a T2C lately? How about a nice vario and gps, or Z5 harness, or a killer 4WD Tahoe? Really, $250.00 is draining Region 11's resources? I am not humored.

I just wish that people who really do not understand Pack and how it operates would quit spewing disinformation. Perhaps then the truth might be seen. For example, when I see AFFA wanting to abandon Pack because the demands of the landowners are too great to satisfy, I want to go close out my 401(k) and do everything I can to save a great flying site that has seen continual hang gliding since before 1984.

So what's it going to be? Ya'll going to trash and help destroy yet another flying site...or do you want to do the honorable thing and help preserve an important part HG history and current flying. I only got 35 hours at Pack this last year. At $275 that makes the airtime about eight bucks an hour. Hell that is less than even a trailer tow at HHPA.

Quite Sincerely,

Pilgrim, Protector of flying sites

Dear Bill,
Unless you want to get really educated on how Pack works, what we are up against, and are willing to come joing and participate in the operation of Pack, please do not meddle with the negotiations. Even the slight comment you just made on this forum demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the delicateness of these negotiations. For the first time in almost 30 years we may loose Pack. We do not need outside disinterested parties helping to bring that to fruition.
Thanks,
Pilgrim

Ah, Pilgrim again,

Still not ready to admit your identity? Grow up.

It's not just my opinion, as I pointed out. And won't effect me either way.

First time in 30yr , that's the annual sales pitch

Sam,
You say that AFFA is keeping Texas from developing flying sites. I fly the following sites on a regular basis...all within two hours.

1. HGT - Columbus
2. HHPA - Hearne, Houston, Quintanna Beach
3. Texas Thermal Rangers - Luling
4. Gregg Ludwigg tows out of Columbus, Lake conroe, Lake Summerville, Wharton, and Texas Flyers
5. Fly Texas tows out of Sunrise Beach, Granit Shoals, Luling, Lake LBJ, Lake Conroe, Lake Summerville
6. Two local sites here in town that are private.

Quite the contrary to your assertion, there is a veritable explosion of flying sites opening up around here. As for your assertion that AFFA viewed you as competition and sabataged you...Bull s***. AFFA never viewed your operation as competition. You are a five hour drive from Austin and except for one single week event there is hardly any flying that goes on down there. The only available foot launch in Leakey (that is no longer available) had no road and the walk was so wicked that only baggies and one crazed HG pilot ever flew it. AFFA was gracious enough bite on your annual request for USHPA sponsorship one year and regretted it. They brought your site under their wing, provided you with USHPA insurance as a USHPA site and how did you thank them? By disregarding the rules they needed you to follow to be an USHPA site, and failing to get waivers and the ten dollar membership fees from the pilots. You sabataged yourself Sam.

Pilgrim

Pilgrim wrote:Dear Bill,
Unless you want to get really educated on how Pack works, please do not meddle with the negotiations. Pilgrim

Yeah, Bill. Just send in your >$250. Don't ask any questions.

So Pilgrim can save his site in his own back yard.

Pilgrim wrote:failing to get waivers

The only person who didn't sign a waiver, didn't bother to register, went streight to the flight line and started towing, was Riss Estes.

Pilgrim wrote: You sabataged yourself Sam.

Sure, Right

Most all of the flying locations you mention are <a couple years old. Like you said, "an explosion NOW", If you don't think it will divert resources, then why all the and the offer to rob your own piggy bank to fund pack?
More the better