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Re: Safe-Splat

Postby Rick Masters » Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:09 pm

head down, feet up

Suprone or prone, the pilot wants to be parallel with the yaw string for reduced drag.

isn't any fun

It never occurred to me that it isn't any fun to fly faster and farther and higher than the other pilots on hang gliders below and behind me.
I know, you're saying feet up, head down is uncomfortable, but the greatest element of discomfort is neck strain unless you have provided an elastic strap from the hang point to your helmet to support your head, which is absolutely necessary and I would say completely solves the problem - even on flights of 8 hours or more.

Flying in traffic is a different issue than XC.
I would think suprone would be safer in terms of avoiding midairs and maybe even those flying buildings I am hearing about.     :o

Small differences in drag between paragliders are not likely to make much difference.
(A big difference would be removal of suspension lines.)
Cleaning up hang gliders yields marginally measurable differences.
(A big difference would be removal of upper rigging.)
Small differences in drag between sailplanes of the same type yield very measurable differences.
This all is due, of course, to the fact that drag rises dramatically with speed.

Image
Use ctl/shift/- to see the maxed out suprone guy (same as prone guy).

With hang gliders, a superior pilot flying suprone would possibly be able to perform as well most prone pilots in thermalling or ridge lift.
But it won't do as well in XC on a good day.
It possibly could, EXCEPT for one thing, and that is the addition of the second horizontal tube in the windstream.
If Jim holds out that bar from a vehicle traveling 35 - 45 mph, it will be obvious the deficit the suprone pilot is operating under.
That's the between thermal run in serious XC.
The suprone pilots will fall below and behind the prone pilots at speed.

One way to reduce drag for suprone XC is to replace the lower controlbar with a cable and fair the upper bar.
And of course, get rid of the wheels.     :wtf:

Probably the best idea I've had is to use a properly engineered single forged stainless steel lower control frame that crosses above the pilot's lap and drops down two legs for flying wires to attach to. Shortened aluminum downtubes could attach to this bar.
You could even fit it with faired detachable wheels.
Probably less safe than a standard setup unless the downtubes are designed to fail at typical crash sideloads.
(You wouldn't want to catch your chin on it flying suprone in a crash.
Maybe a candidate for Jim's restraint device? A lot to play with...
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Re: Safe-Splat

Postby reluctantsparrow » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:20 pm

Here is a much shorter video of that harness
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Re: Safe-Splat

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:26 pm

Very nice video Jim!!!!

You've really refined your idea nicely, and I wish you a lot of luck with your kickstarter!!

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Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org
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Re: Safe-Splat

Postby reluctantsparrow » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:09 am

[quote="Rick MastersProbably the best idea I've had is to use a properly engineered single forged stainless steel lower control frame that crosses above the pilot's lap and drops down two legs for flying wires to attach to. Shortened aluminum downtubes could attach to this bar.
You could even fit it with faired detachable wheels.
...[/quote]

That is actually a great idea and I remember you sharing this before. An "A" frame with an actual "A" shape and not just triangular.

The goal of this thread is, of course, safety, but if we can keep it clean aerodynamically why the heck not?

The harness I am using right now (the Gin Genie Race) is like, 90% of what I am looking for in a harness. Still lookin for the perfect harness and if I can't find it I will make my own. I used to make harnesses for Delta Wings Kites and Gliders their last few months of operation. I may be looking for a good Phaff Walking foot sewing machine if anyone has one. The harness I am looking for and wish to construct will incorporate a carbon fiber "butt plate" with a hinge point a few inches forward of the pilots hips to facilitate smooth transition to "seated" as a pilot runs.
They way my main sraps run over my shoulders and BACK to my hips as I run kinda 'drops me in" as I take my last step, my feet come off the ground, and my hips swing forward. Also,
There will be no 'padding" or space for a "reserve" chute under the pilot which will allow me to drop my center of mass a few inches, not have to rotate the Base tube so far downward, which will allow my Base Tube much more ground clearance and I can "roll it in" through much rougher terrain....
The Forward hinge point is going to allow a smooth transition as we run like SCotty mentioned in the vid....but honestly...the Gin Genie Race I am using is like soooooo sweet...and already does about 90 % of what I need a suprone harness to do .....It is so comfy I might have to install a "Wet-Bar" in the harness for the traditional Mid-flight cocktail (minus the stewardess of course)
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Re: Safe-Splat

Postby Rick Masters » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:21 pm

A tough customer

"If only I hadn't left my hang glider on Krypton!"

BTW, although I prefer the quality and power of my Pfaff, a generic Walking Foot will fit a lot of different sewing machines - and they're cheap.
Image
http://www.sewingpartsonline.com/walking-foot-singer-006185008.aspx?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=(ROI)%20Shopping&utm_term=1100003115194&utm_content=Presser%20Feet
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Re: Safe-Splat

Postby reluctantsparrow » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:56 am

Wow...how do they make something like that and sell it for only 29 bucks? Thanks Rick...sj
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Re: Safe-Splat

Postby reluctantsparrow » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:01 am

I am very excited to get my "AeroTow" design bent up and tested. The wheel system is going to change as well. My wheels are going to remain near the lower control bar corners however, not out front. I thought of moving wheels farther forward to prevent whacks but If the pilot uses only the DT's to pull in for landing there is no way to pull the weight so far forward as to produce a 'whack" scenario (already tried, can't do it, the nose always wants to stay up when I roll it in using the DT's). My wheels are going to be shock absorbent and not transfer any wear and tear to the base tube either. When I land using the DT's very little weight is rearward, and yet my weight can not be pulled far enough forward to create a problem either. Kinda perfect. YOu will notice in my vids it takes a long time for my tail to "fall". My "tail" support will not be built like a tank and does not need to connect to the keel either, leaving the space behind the pilot free from obstacles for chute deployments. it also will be foot launchable. ...I will post pics and video when I get it all bent up and running smooth. I am having so much fun with this project. Surely do appreciate all the great input and support.
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