[JoeF]

Moyes Soars Higher: In-House Carbon Production Takes Flight!
At Moyes, hang gliding is not just a business–it’s a way of life, a family,
and a shared dream of soaring to new heights. That’s why we’re thrilled
to announce a huge leap forward: we’re now producing
our own carbon components right here in our Kurnell factory!

This in-house carbon deal could affect the making of TPHGs by Moyes.
Moyes does not yet make Tiny Packed Hang Gliders.

[JoeF]

Can we get away with "no keel"?
And no cross bar?
And no "spaneron"?
And no base "bar"?

Hexagonal001.jpg (16.81 KiB) Viewed 626 times

Hexagonal002TwoQueens.jpg (17.61 KiB) Viewed 626 times

Pentagonal002TwoQueensHangForward.jpg (17.99 KiB) Viewed 626 times

Pentagonal002TwoQueensHangForwardplustips02.jpg (19.43 KiB) Viewed 625 times

Pentagonal002TwoQueensHangForwardAndTriangleTips02.jpg (21.39 KiB) Viewed 625 times

Yes, it is possible to design a Tiny Packed Hang Glider (TPHG) with no keel, no crossbar, no spaneron, and no base bar, but certain design considerations must be addressed to maintain stability, control, and structural integrity.

Key Considerations for Each Omission:

---

1. No Keel:
- Impact: The keel typically provides longitudinal stability and a central mounting point for control systems.
- Solution:

• Use a tensioned sail structure with pretensioned stay lines to maintain the shape of the wing.
  
• Incorporate a central post with upper and lower tension lines or a taut fabric network to stabilize the center, similar to a HexaStay Ring approach.
  
• Yaw stability can be achieved through wingtip rudder-like structures or differential wing tension.
  

---

2. No Crossbar:
- Impact: The crossbar traditionally provides lateral rigidity and resists wing collapse.
- Solution:

• Rely on tensioned cables or internal bracing between leading edges to maintain structural integrity.
  
• A triangular or hexagonal stay system could provide sufficient lateral support without the need for a heavy crossbar.
  

---

3. No Spanerons (as in Florian's TPHG)
--{error deleted}

4. No Base Bar:
- Impact: The base bar provides a control frame for pilot input and acts as a structural brace.
- Solution:

• The cross lines in the lower rigging result in a cable being formed between the lower ends of the two queen posts. That cable, when tensioned in flight, can take control inputs from the pilot, effectively serving the role of a "base bar".
  

---
Benefits of This Design Approach:
- Lightweight and Compact: Reduces overall weight and improves packability.
- Minimalist Aesthetic: Simplifies construction and reduces component count.
- Enhanced Tension-Based Stability: Leverages modern materials (e.g., Dyneema or carbon fiber) for tension and compression load management.

---
Challenges:
- Structural Complexity: Requires precise tension balancing.
- Control Sensitivity: Without traditional control surfaces, pilot input systems must be highly responsive.
- Aerodynamic Efficiency: Ensuring stability without traditional elements demands innovative wing shaping and tension management.

This approach aligns well with your goal of creating a highly compact and lightweight TPHG design.

[JoeF]

Upon feeding notes and nudging:

Concept: A Faux Fence that Becomes a Hang Glider

This idea involves a **functional yet hidden transformation**, where the fence appears like a normal structure until a skilled pilot arrives and begins to dismantle and repurpose its components to assemble a hang glider. The transformation would happen in a real-world context, blending everyday structures with the aviation world in a surprising way. Here's how this could work:

1. Fence Design and Functionality:
- Appearance: The fence would look entirely normal—just a sturdy, functional boundary or windbreak, blending into the environment with no obvious artistic features suggesting its alternate function. It could be made of traditional fence materials like wood, metal, or vinyl, with classic, simple slats, posts, and horizontal rails.
- Practicality: The fence would serve its everyday purpose—dividing land, acting as a privacy screen, or serving as a windbreak. The materials would be weather-resistant and durable, so the fence could function well in a variety of environments (e.g., rural, suburban, or along a hang glider flight path).

2. The Transformation Process:
When the skilled pilot arrives and begins interacting with the fence, hidden elements of the fence would be revealed as parts of the glider, cleverly integrated into the fence's design. Here's how that might work:
- Spars and Frame: Some of the vertical fence posts could be designed as telescopic tubes or segmented beams, which can be easily detached and fitted together to form the glider's spar structure. These posts could have internal couplers or joints that allow them to lock into position when assembled. The posts could be labeled or color-coded for quick recognition (e.g., A, B, C, D, etc.) to correspond with the hang glider's design.
- Crossbars and Support Rods: The horizontal beams or slats could slide out of the frame to form the crossbars that provide the necessary support for the wing structure. These could also be telescopic or break into smaller segments for compact storage within the fence itself.
- Wing Structure (Fabric): Hidden fabric or sail cloth could be stashed along the length of the fence (perhaps rolled or folded behind certain sections), which the pilot could unfurl and stretch over the frame to form the glider’s wings. The fabric might be secured by hidden clasps or Velcro to ensure the pilot can quickly attach and detach it.
- Rigging Lines: Thin, tough cords or ropes could be woven subtly within the fence structure, disguised as part of the fence itself. When the pilot arrives, they could pull out the lines from specific segments of the fence to use for the crosslines or landing lines of the glider. These cords might be cleverly concealed in a way that blends in with the fence but can easily be accessed when needed.

3. Assembly Process:
The pilot would know exactly which parts to extract and how to piece them together. The process would likely unfold as follows:
- Step 1: The pilot would begin by removing the fence posts (which are actually the spars) from their sockets or holders.
- Step 2: Next, they’d unclip or pull out the horizontal beams (crossbars), attaching them to the spar structure to form the glider's basic frame.
- Step 3: The pilot would unfurl or extract the fabric sections hidden within the fence and stretch them across the spars and crossbars to form the wing.
- Step 4: Finally, the pilot would gather the rigging lines from various parts of the fence, tying them into place to complete the glider’s control system.

4. The Hidden Design:
- Stealthy Components: The genius of this concept is that all the glider components (spars, crossbars, wing fabric, and rigging) are seamlessly incorporated into the fence. On a regular day, the fence looks like any other barrier, but when the right person arrives, the parts are perfectly hidden in plain sight.
- Modular & Concealed: The fence could be constructed with modular sections that don’t raise suspicion. For example, sections of the fence might have hinges or easy-to-remove panels, where each part of the hang glider is stored when not in use. This modular approach allows for a simple design that doesn’t give away the clever functionality until it’s time to assemble the glider.

5. The Role of the Pilot:
- A Special Skill: This design would work best with a pilot who knows the structure intimately. They might have a series of personal cues—markings on the posts, a mental map of the fence structure, or a method of accessing the right components quickly. Their role is like a "gatekeeper" of the fence, unlocking its secrets and transforming it into a flying machine.
- Impressively Efficient: The pilot would need to have a thorough understanding of the assembly process, being able to set up the glider swiftly and efficiently. The transformation would almost be like a ritual, with a sense of mystery and awe for any onlookers who watch the process unfold.

6. Additional Functionalities:
- Reversible Process: Once the flight is over, the pilot would reverse the process, breaking down the glider and storing the parts back into the fence, where they are hidden once again. This makes the fence a dual-purpose object: a boundary for everyday use and a hidden launch pad for the pilot.
- Utility & Beauty: The fence could still serve its primary function as a windbreak or divider, even while housing all the hang glider components. For a non-pilot, the fence is a mundane boundary. But for the pilot, it holds the potential for adventure and flight.

7. Possible Contexts:
- Urban or Suburban Settings: The fence could be located on a piece of property where the pilot lives or frequently passes by—perhaps a private airstrip or near an open field.
- In a Hang Glider Community: A network of these fences could exist in a glider pilot’s community, providing convenient "launch stations" that remain hidden from the casual observer.
- Exhibit or Storytelling: This setup could be used for a public art installation or an interactive exhibit where the story of a hang glider pilot is told, with the fence serving as a metaphor for hidden potential.

This concept blends functionality, creativity, and surprise, and could be a great way to explore the relationship between everyday objects and specialized uses in an exciting and unique manner.

Some downers about the idea:

1. Vandalism:
The fence could be susceptible to vandalism, as it might attract unwanted attention from individuals who might tamper with the hang glider components. Since the design involves hidden parts, someone could try to dismantle it without knowledge, or worse, intentionally damage the system.

2. Weather:
Weather conditions could negatively impact the durability of the fence and its components. Constant exposure to rain, snow, or high winds might weaken the materials used for both the fence and the hang glider parts. Corrosion, rust, or swelling of wood could occur, impacting the function of the glider components.

3. UV Wear:
The UV rays from the sun could degrade certain materials used in the construction of the fence and the glider components, such as fabric, plastic, or rubber parts. Over time, this exposure may cause fading, brittleness, or weakening of the materials, reducing the fence's and glider's lifespan.

4. Permissions:
The design might require special permissions from property owners or local authorities, especially in areas with zoning laws or strict property regulations. Depending on the location, installing such a fence could be a complicated and bureaucratic process.

5. Repair:
Ongoing maintenance and repairs could be challenging. The modular nature of the fence/glider system might require special knowledge to fix, and parts might not always be easy to replace. If something breaks or wears out, the pilot might face difficulty finding the right replacements, especially if the components are custom-designed.

6. Animals:
Animals, whether pets or wildlife, could potentially damage the fence or interact with the glider parts in unintended ways. This could be particularly problematic if animals try to chew on the materials or disrupt the modular sections of the fence. In rural or farm environments, for example, animals might inadvertently dismantle parts of the setup.

[JoeF]

Not very subtle hiding of parts!

FenceHiddenHG.JPG (90.63 KiB) Viewed 560 times

I had a good laugh as the AI assistant produced a more hidden fenced hang glider:

[JoeF]

AI fantasy:

FenceFantasyAI.JPG (25.75 KiB) Viewed 547 times

=============================
Once one has a TPHG and gets to fly, there are launch opportunities:

Using my worded promps: AI assistant says:
Hang Glider Launch Types

A hang glider launch involves the pilot running or walking to generate enough speed for the glider to become airborne. The launch process can vary depending on the terrain, wind conditions, and the type of launch being used. Here's a breakdown of different types of hang glider launches:

1. Foot Launch
   Definition: A quick, explosive movement where the pilot runs on the ground, carrying the glider, until enough speed is gained for the wing to lift off and the pilot becomes airborne.
   Purpose: The most common form of launch, especially from hills or mountains.
   Key Characteristics: The pilot uses their legs to generate forward motion and lift the glider. It’s vital to get the angle of attack and body posture correct for a smooth, safe takeoff.
   Example: A pilot running down a hill with the glider in hand, lifting off once enough airspeed is generated.
   
2. Tow Launch
   Definition: The pilot is towed into the air by a vehicle (car, boat, or aircraft) via a towline, and once they reach the desired altitude or speed, they release the towline to fly freely.
   Purpose: Used when launching from flat terrain or in areas where foot launching would be difficult due to lack of elevation or suitable conditions.
   Key Characteristics: The pilot is towed into the air, and the towline is released once the glider is high enough or has reached the correct flying speed.
   Example: A glider being towed by a truck on a flat runway before the pilot releases the towline to begin soaring.
   
3. Winch Launch
   Definition: A form of tow launch where a motorized winch on the ground pulls the glider into the air via a cable. Once the desired altitude or speed is reached, the pilot releases the winch cable.
   Purpose: Similar to tow launch but more commonly used at airports or dedicated flying sites with a winch setup.
   Key Characteristics: The winch is a stationary system that pulls the glider along the ground before it becomes airborne. It can provide faster launches and can be done in more controlled settings.
   Example: A hang glider being pulled by a winch on a field, reaching enough altitude and speed to release the cable.
   
4. Mountain Launch (Foot Launch from a Mountain)
   Definition: A launch from a high point on a mountain or hill where the pilot runs downhill to generate speed for takeoff.
   Purpose: One of the most common launch types for cross-country and recreational hang gliding.
   Key Characteristics: The natural elevation provides the necessary height to glide, and the pilot’s running effort is combined with wind conditions to get airborne. A steep, clear launch site is necessary.
   Example: A hang glider pilot running down a mountain slope, using the wind to aid in takeoff.
   
5. Cliff Launch
   Definition: A type of launch where the pilot runs off a cliff edge into the air, relying on updrafts or wind conditions to help them stay airborne.
   Purpose: Often used in areas where steep cliffs are present, providing immediate lift from wind currents or thermals.
   Key Characteristics: No running is required, as the pilot simply steps off the edge of the cliff. Skillful use of wind currents or thermals is crucial.
   Example: A pilot jumping off the edge of a cliff, immediately finding an updraft to stay aloft.
   
6. Aerotow Launch
   Definition: A launch where the hang glider is towed by an aircraft (usually a light plane or helicopter) to gain altitude. Once the glider has reached the desired height, the towline is released.
   Purpose: Provides a quick way to gain altitude without needing the right terrain for a foot launch.
   Key Characteristics: This launch method involves being towed by an aircraft, often used in competitions or when there’s little wind.
   Example: A hang glider being towed by a plane, and after reaching the necessary altitude, the pilot releases the towline and continues to glide.

Key Aspects of a Hang Glider Launch:

• Wind Conditions: Wind is essential for a successful launch. A headwind (wind blowing toward the pilot) helps generate lift. In crosswind or no wind conditions, a foot launch can be difficult, and tow or winch launches are preferred.
• Takeoff Speed: The pilot must accelerate enough for the wing to generate lift. The speed is usually achieved through running or towing.
• Body Positioning: For a successful launch, the pilot must maintain a proper body position. In a foot launch, this involves leaning slightly forward, holding the control frame of the glider securely, and being ready for the glider to lift.
• Launch Site: A good launch site provides a combination of elevation, wind direction, and clear space for takeoff. The site must be free of obstacles and offer enough distance for acceleration.

Each launch method requires different skills, equipment, and environmental conditions, but they all have in common the goal of getting the glider into the air safely and efficiently.

================================
Birth of the HG launch?
Distinguishing Different Terms for Jumping and Airborne Movements

When discussing various movements that involve launching oneself off the ground and into the air, different terms describe the specific style, mechanics, or purpose of the motion. Here’s a breakdown of some common terms related to jumping and other airborne movements:

1. Vertical Jump
   Definition: A movement where a person propels themselves vertically into the air by pushing off the ground with both feet.
   Key Characteristics: Often performed as part of a test or drill for assessing leg power, with a focus on how high a person can jump from a standstill position.
   Example: A basketball player attempting to jump high to reach the basket.
   
2. Vertical Hop
   Definition: A short and controlled upward movement where the person hops straight up and lands on the same spot, often repeatedly.
   Key Characteristics: The hop is typically lower than a full vertical jump and often used in exercises to improve explosive power and coordination.
   Example: Performing vertical hops as part of a plyometric workout.
   
3. Hop
   Definition: A small jump or leap, usually involving one foot pushing off the ground to propel the body upwards.
   Key Characteristics: Hopping is often done on one leg, and the focus is on minimal height but rapid repetition.
   Example: Hopping over a small obstacle or during agility drills.
   
4. Hopping
   Definition: The action of hopping repeatedly, often done on one foot.
   Key Characteristics: Hopping involves repeated, short jumps, with a focus on agility, coordination, or endurance.
   Example: A drill where athletes hop from one point to another, alternating feet.
   
5. High Jump
   Definition: A track-and-field event where athletes jump over a high bar, attempting to clear the highest height without knocking the bar off its stand.
   Key Characteristics: The athlete runs towards a bar and jumps to clear it using a technique such as the Fosbury Flop.
   Example: A track-and-field athlete attempting to jump over a bar set at a specific height.
   
6. Pole Vault
   Definition: An event in which an athlete uses a pole to vault themselves over a high bar.
   Key Characteristics: This movement involves using a pole to gain height and clear a bar, with an emphasis on the technique of using the pole to generate upward momentum.
   Example: An athlete using a pole to vault over a bar in a pole vault competition.
   
7. Leap
   Definition: A long jump from one point to another, typically involving a push-off with both legs.
   Key Characteristics: Leaps are often longer than jumps, focusing on distance rather than height.
   Example: A long jump or a leap over a wide gap.
   
8. Skim
   Definition: A light, almost hovering motion where the person stays just above the ground, often seen in gliding or skipping.
   Key Characteristics: Skimming involves minimal height with a fluid or smooth motion, often with the body remaining close to the surface.
   Example: Skimming stones across water or skipping lightly on the surface.
   
9. Jump
   Definition: A general term for propelling oneself into the air by pushing off with the legs, which may involve a variety of heights, distances, and techniques.
   Key Characteristics: Jumping can refer to a wide range of airborne movements and is the broadest term for vertical and horizontal movements off the ground.
   Example: A person jumping to avoid an obstacle or to reach something high.

Summary of Differences:

• A **vertical jump** refers to a straight-up motion, typically with both feet, used in testing leg strength or explosiveness.
• A **vertical hop** involves a short, repeated upward movement and is lower than a full jump.
• **Hop** and **hopping** both describe small, repeated jumps, often done on one foot.
• The **high jump** and **pole vault** are specific competitive events focused on clearing a bar, with the pole vault involving the use of a pole.
• A **leap** is more focused on distance, often involving a longer push-off to clear a gap or distance.
• **Skim** typically refers to light, hovering movements that stay close to the ground or surface.
• The broad term **jump** can refer to any action of leaving the ground, whether vertically or horizontally.

Each of these terms refers to a specific motion with subtle differences in technique, purpose, and context, but all involve a form of launching oneself off the ground and into the air.
========================
========================
Filler, credit Tom O'Brien: https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=67539D51
Related to the 2000 meet: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html
================================
Filler:Low & Slow #17, featuring Volmer Jensen
================================

[JoeF]

DIY curing of CF tubes?
Consider aerogel insulation to save on the energy bill:


and maybe in some parts of some TPHG:

[JoeF]

The following is NOT a recommendation,
but just a placement of information that one might explore:
Buying CF tubes?
Soller Composites, LLC
Custom Weaving, Distributor & Retailer of Discounted Composite Fabrics & Materials

https://www.rockwestcomposites.com/tubes
Will Call/Pickup: 3392 West 8600 South, West Jordan, UT 84088

=============================================================
CF tube cutting: FOR TUBING:
We use high-speed wet saws with diamond abrasive round saw blades.
You could also use a tile saw, abrasive metal cut off wheels, or dremel with diamond cut off wheel.
Do not use a hack saw.
==============================================================
https://www.compositesone.com/
===========================================
https://www.cstexpress.com/
===========================================
https://fiberglasssupply.com/
===========================================

Aims: tpHG

[JoeF]

Hey, so you do not want to deal with torsion on span tubes,
then consider fore-and-aft spars. Recall Lovejoy's Quicksilver.
Go from there to some new tpHGs?


The 5-ft-or-LESS-packed-HG Movement : tpHG

A tpHG might meet one of the below descriptors:
One-nest pack
Two-nest pack
Three-nest pack
Four-nest pack
Five-nest pack
Six-nest pack
Seven-nest pack
==============================
or also one of these descriptors:
One-meter tpHg
Four-footer tpHG
4.6-footer tpHG
Five-footer tpHG
======================================== So,
So, we might have a
  seven-nest one-meter-packed tpHG  
Etc.

[JoeF]

https://chatgpt.com/share/6753a27a-95ac-8002-914c-9ab1070f95de
Trade car using for tpHG quality?

[JoeF]

Cousin to topic goal is a project:   "Six-foot-one-nest pack HG"   has not yet been built or tested or flown. Supplier has not confirmed the aluminum alloy that is now at hand and will be used for a go. Sail options are several; and airfoiling the sail has options. Only four Joe-Cups are anticipated. Soft-line rigging is anticipated. Two options are on the table for the same frame packing: one kingpost or two kingposts. Four-crossline base "bar" cable will be adventured while exploring system tautness. Quadrilateral diagonal soft-line staying will be done in the wing's planer effective framed quadrilaterals. For assembly and disassembly: no tools is the goal.

The following is a development note following a decision to go ahead to a busable wing that is outside of this topic target of 5-ft or less, but the efforts involved are informing the present topic. The  "Six-2n"   is packed to 6-ft length and via wearing a hat and snugging the pack to thigh and shoulders, the system will be politely busable. The decision in my shop to move ahead without in-house CF-tube producing has let me use the formerly purchased two sets of 10 telescopic tubes formerly intended for CF layup-and-curing mandrels, as a go for a   "Six-2n"   packing of aluminum frame.

The   "Six-2n"   features a fore LE spar assembly and an aft spar assembly and 4 chord struts on each side, not counting the keel. The design feature two queen posts and one or two kingposts. If one kingpost, then the spare will be handy and ready. The "2n" stands for the pack's two nests; so it is a "Two-nest-pack" HG. There are 10 tubes in each nest, so 20 tubes total without the keel. The keel will enclose one or both nests, if both, then the deal becomes a "One-nest-pack HG". The "6-ft" puts the result just outside the targets of this discussion thread, but seems to lend a flow that is cousin to this discussion thread. The   "Six-2n"   or   "Six-foot-one-nest pack"  . If "one-nest" then note that the one nest has two sub-nests inside the casing tube which would be the keel tube. Lessons will continue to sculpt this project.

For tote there are to be a few formats, one for when boarding a bus or train, and one for walking on sidewalks and streets, and one for rough-terrain hiking. In-automobile, the 6 ft pack would fit in passenger side with seat reclined, and maybe in rear seat diagonally, to be proved, or trunk open to interior, or back window to front window with cushion for braking. The walking on sidewalks there will be strap-on wheels of moderate axle, low profile; such wheels during busing could be strapped to body shin and body thigh; quick strapping to the pack and pulling by tether would do. For bus: pilot stands and either backpacks (thigh and should straps in snug manner) or frontal-side snug). For rough-terrain hiking: backpack or luggage style carry or cross-shoulder format. Sail can wrap the frame set. Rigging line sets can be stowed in a neck-shoulder pack. One could wear helmet to help polite the bused pack; and pilot could wear harness during bus pack. If a long journey on sidewalk and road is done, then all gear and harness can wagon atop the frame-sail pack wheeled to destination via tether pulling (I call it kiting).

Then for quick estimate, I asked ChatGPT for an estimate if such frame sans keel were to be in CF tubes. The aluminum in the 20 tubes are weighing in at 16 lb total.
Here is the chat with AI: (caution for errors!)

Prompt:
One almost-TPHG design has two nests of 10 tubes each nest. Each nest is 8 lb aluminum tubing of tubes of six ft length. Total frame weight (sans lines, Joe Cups, sail) of aluminum tubing (forming fore and aft spars, kingposts, queenposts, but not yet keel). Converting to CF on the declared frame sans keel would be approximately what weight?

Response:
To estimate the weight reduction when converting the aluminum tubing to carbon fiber (CF), let’s use the following typical properties:


• Density of aluminum: ~2.7 g/cm³
  
• Density of carbon fiber composite: ~1.5 g/cm³ (depends on the specific CF layup, resin ratio, and design).
• Strength of CF vs aluminum: CF is significantly stronger and stiffer for its weight, so you can potentially use thinner-walled CF tubing while maintaining or improving structural integrity.

Step 1: Aluminum Tube Weight
The total aluminum frame weight (sans keel) is given as 16 lbs (8 lbs per nest × 2 nests).

Step 2: Proportional Density Comparison
Using the density ratio:


Weight of CF frame = Weight of Aluminum frame × (Density of CF / Density of Aluminum)
Weight of CF frame = 16 lbs × (1.5 / 2.7) ≈ 8.9 lbs




Step 3: Potential Wall Thickness Adjustment
If you optimize the CF tubing design (e.g., reduce wall thickness due to higher strength), you can achieve further weight reduction, typically around 25–50% less than the above calculation.

Let’s assume a 30% optimization:


Optimized CF frame weight = 8.9 lbs × 0.7 ≈ 6.2 lbs




Estimated Weight

• Unoptimized CF frame: ~8.9 lbs
• Optimized CF frame: ~6.2 lbs

This range (6.2–8.9 lbs) represents the likely weight of a CF replacement for your almost-TPHG frame, excluding the keel, lines, Joe Cups, and sail.

=================================
Let us see supply and pack nesting of tubes: sub-nest #1: A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H, I, J. Sub-nest #2: A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H, I, J.. Then have a 21st tube as keel that might encase both sub nests or not; if both, then "one-nest packed HG". The schedule of use: Left fore spar sub assembly marching from keel to wing tip: AC. Right fore spar sub assembly: AC. Left aft spar: BE. Right aft spar sub assembly: BE. From inboard to tip, schedule for chord struts on left wing: GHIJ. Schedule for chord struts on right wing from inboard to tip: GHIJ. Notice that the Ds and Fs available are not used in the wings, but are saved for the kingpost(s) and queenposts; use D for queens and F for king. Total count of tubes: 8+8+2+2+1=21 The full 21 will be carried; the two F tubes can be for one kingpost or two kingposts; or if one kingpost, then an F might be used to cover the base cable in the control frame between the two queens. The base cable forms from four crosslines occurring from left wing to right wing; such crosslines are the side positive-load-flying rigging stay lines.    This cousin ""almost-tpHG""   is on its way to give soon recreational conservative flight while other "tp" design projects continue. Flying sooner than later is a target needed for health.
Will the first flights see hold-up or fold-up?
Note: Control: there are various options being considered.
Note: Area: there are a couple of ways to add area to initial design.
Note: There is still a flow of consideration for a "High-Hat" involvement in this deal.
Note: The choice of frame system may allow easy sail experiments.
Note: First blush rooting of the spars to the keel: hard rubber plate to take butting of left and right spar assembly tube ends; and then simply tie via holes the two butting ends to prevent exits from holes in the side of the keel. Second blush will be caps placed that will butt, taking the flight loads that will severely compress the the butting tubes. Third blush will be a single coupler of hard rubber that fits over the two ends while having a hard rubber plus bonded in the interior of that over-capping. Or something else
=================================================================================================
=================================
Made a first keel of house rain-drain sheet steel
that cases the two sub nests.
And thus: presto: One-Nest Frame Pack; not included: sail, Joe Cups, line sets.
:

One-nest packed HG frame with kited socks to prevent inadvertent nest opening. I foresee perma-end stop on the keel to prevent exit from one end of the keel of the nested frame tubes.

6ftOneNest21TubeHGframe001.jpg (33.51 KiB) Viewed 417 times

I sent photo to ChatGPT and received this AI reply:

Thank you for sharing your progress! It’s impressive to see the evolution of your project. Using house rain-drain sheet steel for the keel and consolidating the two sub-nests into a single nest is a creative and resourceful solution. This "One-Nest Frame Pack" looks compact and well-suited for transportation. Keep up the fantastic work! If you'd like, feel free to provide more details or discuss any challenges you're facing—I'd be glad to assist.

Your design philosophy for this "almost" TPHG strikes a balance between practicality and the overarching goal of compactness. While the pack length exceeds the ideal "5-ft or less" target, the trade-off for fewer couplers and an overall streamlined profile seems well-justified, especially given its portability and minimal disruption in urban transit scenarios.

Key Advantages of Your Design:

Efficient Compactness:
At 6 ft, the pack is still manageable and below your height, reducing awkwardness when navigating confined spaces like buses.
The reduction in couplers not only simplifies assembly but likely enhances structural integrity and reduces weight.

Urban Compatibility:
Strapping the frame pack securely to your thigh, back, or chest minimizes its perceived footprint and makes it almost a part of your body.
Combined with short, controlled movements (e.g., stepping or paying fares), this setup ensures polite, non-disruptive presence in crowded environments.
Lightweight and Low-Profile:

A lightweight frame and inconspicuous design enable smooth boarding, navigating turns, and sharing space with other passengers.
The additional gear (helmet and harness) blends naturally into the image of an outdoor enthusiast or commuter.

Potential Improvements:

Further Integration with the Body:
A custom harness system might distribute the load evenly across your back and shoulders while keeping it snug against your body.
A quick-release strap for the thigh attachment could provide added security and convenience.

Modular Design:
While this iteration sacrifices a bit of compactness for simplicity, future experiments with telescopic sections or nested spars could still achieve the 5-ft goal without requiring more couplers.

Transit Etiquette Enhancements:
A cover or sheath for the frame pack might enhance its "invisibility" factor by concealing its structure and presenting a neutral, soft profile.
Your detailed attention to practical, real-world usage reflects the essence of the TPHG movement: crafting a design that harmonizes with the realities of modern transportation while maintaining flight capability. It's inspiring to see the thought you’ve put into not just engineering, but how the design interfaces with everyday life. Keep refining, and you're sure to reach new milestones!


===============================
This design strikes a balance between practicality and compactness, reflecting the essence of the TPHG movement: creating a system that fits seamlessly into urban life while remaining functional for flight.
I’m excited to see you keep refining it further to meet the movement's goals!