[Rick Masters]

[note to myself: stop posting info here. it cannot be corrected, updated, deleted or added to]

[Free]

Paragliding will destroy hang gliding. Commercial tandem operators of both disciplines will assist.

Real pilots who love free flight on robust, airframed aircraft will never find a better time than now to abandon the sinking ship of the USPA and form a new, alternative organization with NO PARAGLIDERS and NO FLIGHTS OFFERED FOR MONEY.

Burnabycitizenstandard
2012/04/30
at 7:04 PM ETDo a search for Groupon deals under the pilot's name and you will see he has sold 770 deals at half-price in the past few months. They all expire before July 27th. A good question to ask is: Should extreme sports be sold en mass on daily dealy sites? Will there be enough manpower to deal with the huge influx of couponers and gift certificates without sacrificing safety?

Most important of all: Should a life-risking extreme sport be treated as a bargain gift that you get at a 50% discount? We are not dealing with spa or restaurant visits here. We are dealing with actual human lives.

[Bob Kuczewski]

[note to myself: stop posting info here. it cannot be corrected, updated, deleted or added to]

The current policy is to allow a 1-hour change period on each post. The purpose is to keep people from "rewriting history" when it becomes convenient.

If you have typos or other minor changes, I can make them for you. But substantial changes are best handled by subsequent posts containing the corrections.

My goal is to preserve what people write so it can be reviewed objectively. Please contrast that with other sites where posters can rewrite their history or where moderators take considerable liberty with what people have posted.

You can trust what you read on US Hawks because we don't modify it after the fact. I hope that's something you can respect.

[Bill Cummings]

I'm good with that Bob.

[note to myself: stop posting info here. it cannot be corrected, updated, deleted or added to]

The current policy is to allow a 1-hour change period on each post. The purpose is to keep people from "rewriting history" when it becomes convenient.

If you have typos or other minor changes, I can make them for you. But substantial changes are best handled by subsequent posts containing the corrections.

My goal is to preserve what people write so it can be reviewed objectively. Please contrast that with other sites where posters can rewrite their history or where moderators take considerable liberty with what people have posted.

You can trust what you read on US Hawks because we don't modify it after the fact. I hope that's something you can respect.

[Rick Masters]

>>I hope that's something you can respect.

It is not. And although we have discussed this privately, my words and thoughts remain mine by any measure. You can't take them and justify freezing them for a historical archive without agreement from me.

I chose to share them with some people in an effort to communicate.

There is not much problem in sharing opinions. But if one shares information, there has to be a path to keep the info current. Things change.

Without, we are left only with opinions which lead only to argument.

It is more important to me to have an accurate record of fact for me rather than an inaccurate historical archive for somebody else.

In my opinion, your silly argument for a historical archive will achieve a poor result with self-censorship or alienation at its core.

Good luck.

[Merlin]

Sort of like George Lucas redoing Star Wars such that Han Solo shoots Greedo in self defense? Sorry, Han Shot First.

To expect to be able to go back and tinker with your part in conversations seems unreasonable unless all the edited versions are included in the post.

[Bob Kuczewski]

But if one shares information, there has to be a path to keep the info current. Things change.

Without, we are left only with opinions which lead only to argument.

It is more important to me to have an accurate record of fact for me rather than an inaccurate historical archive for somebody else.

Thanks Rick ...

But remember that sometimes the history of arrival of information is as important as the final result. Topics on a forum evolve to show how the pieces were put together and that's useful in itself. In fact, sometimes understanding the history of how something happened is more insightful than just understanding the final state. Take USHPA for example. It's important to understand that it started out as a hang gliding organization and that paragliding was "grafted" on for partially financial reasons. I don't know the full story, but understanding how it happened and who were proponents (and opponents) is important to what to do now. I wish we had a "forum type" history of every USHPA Board meeting to see who argued for and against everything that USHPA has done. That's how I'd like to see the US Hawks operate as we grow.

Having said that, you're right Rick that we should have a portion of this site where people can find current information without slogging through lengthy history and opinion. A "wiki" of some sort would be good for that, and I apologize that I don't have one on the site yet. That's one of the many things that I would like to do with the US Hawks that would make it better than USHPA. I hope you can make due with the current forum format until I can add a wiki and other tools for sharing and presenting information.

Thanks for that suggestion!!

[Bob Kuczewski]

To expect to be able to go back and tinker with your part in conversations seems unreasonable unless all the edited versions are included in the post.

This is exactly right. That's what Jack and Davis have done on their forums by changing and/or moving posts. When you read it, you're not really reading what happened and that gives a false impression of both the discussion and the participants.

If you recall the book "1984", it was the constant rewriting of history that made it impossible to correct the situation. The same theme was repeated in Orwell's "Animal Farm" where "4 legs good, 2 legs bad" was morphed over time into just the opposite. History is important because it's the basis for credibility.

But I do agree with Rick that it would be good to have a portion of this site where we can show current "results" ... as Rick does on his web site regarding paragliding fatalities. I can't argue with that, but I just have to find the time to do it. To be honest (a little painfully honest), I've been disappointed with the participation in the US Hawks. I know that both Jack and Davis have manipulated posts on their forums and have outright banned opposing viewpoints and participants. I am very disappointed that so many people continue happily along on those forums without challenging that behavior or coming to participate in the US Hawks. It's a microcosm of what's happening in our society in general (as Warren has correctly pointed out), and it often leaves me feeling pretty hopeless about continuing.

[SamKellner]

http://ushpa.vizigy.com/forum

Maybe it is a temporary outage but......

The new site is gone right now.

Several of the newly appointed safety coordinators come on with legit questions, days ago.
Not one reply from anyone at ushpa.