[TadEareckson]

No, that challenge is completely within your control.

Correct. I'm just saying that my terms are non negotiable. I've pulled way too many punches for way too long.

If Sam called you nasty names...

Rick Mullins - 2011/02/12

Fire away Tad, I won't be around to read it. While you seem to have some pertinent information, you're obviously a total dick.

That's off of Jim Gaar's forum - right after I dealt with Tracy Tillman. Doesn't bother me in the least. It so happens that I totally agree with him.

...or said you were dumber than dirt...

That would be fine too. I AM dumber than dirt. That's why I never assume that I'm hooked in on a ramp if more than two seconds have elapsed since the last time I checked. I typically prove I'm dumber that dirt fifty times a day.

This:

Yeah, I don't even read all of those long winded "explanations".

however, REALLY PISSES ME OFF.

Davis led by example and created an environment in which every imaginable expression of disrespect and contempt and attack on me was encouraged. Sam went along with the cult.

...it still wouldn't keep you from describing better and safer ways of towing without attacking or belittling anyone. You can't pin your actions on Sam. Am I right or not?

I have been engineering and describing better ways of towing and flying for decades to the point that I'm now ninety percent of the way off the deep end. But it's always the legions of Sams talking about how wonderful people like Steve Wendt are who make sure that none of it ever gets into circulation. And it's the Sams and Steves that have cost me my own flying career. Think about how that would make you feel.

Now we're getting to the heart of the matter. It's my understanding - and you can correct me if I'm wrong - that one of your primary concerns is the need to remove one's hands from the basetube in order to release. Is that correct?

Yeah. Now we're starting to make real progress in getting back to 1974. Now we're starting to understand that you can control a hang glider with two hands a lot better than with one. When you were six years old and in a clutch situation on a bicycle where were your hands and why? At this rate...

But the guy in that account relayed by Gregg NEVER HAD HIS HANDS ON THE BASETUBE and thus a release actuator there - or on a downtube for that matter - would've done him no good whatsoever.

Donnell was supposed to be this great evangelist of safe towing.

No matter what the hell else you do you can eliminate 95 percent of the dangers of towing by using wheels for launching - and landing. By the fall of 1983 Donnell was aware that the Danes were using launch dollies. Launch dollies allow you to start prone with both hands on the basetube, attain virtually unlimited groundspeed, and blast into the air at the right pitch attitude and level with as much airspeed as you want. And by the mid Eighties platform launching was making things even more brain dead easy. But wheels - along with both hands at all times - never fit into Donnell's unexamined and untested assumptions about the elements required for a safe tow.

So here we still are with some poor clown trying to set the world land speed record on asphalt with no way to abort while Donnell keeps him safe with low controlled tension and a nice graaaaadual transition to flight.

Zack C - 2011/04/15

After over a hundred each of hill/mountain launches, aerotows, and surface tows, I feel that platform launching is the safest way to get a hang glider into the air.

And I'll betchya that Lemmy Lopez would've been OK last October if he'd built himself a platform tow rig instead of a foot launch job.

Let's just take this slowly and see if we can make some progress. Thanks for bearing with me.

And thanks for staying with me but let's not take things too slowly and reinvent too many wheels. And please keep checking things at Kite Strings - that'll make the going a lot easier.

[Bob Kuczewski]

I AM dumber than dirt. That's why I never assume that I'm hooked in on a ramp if more than two seconds have elapsed since the last time I checked. I typically prove I'm dumber that dirt fifty times a day.

No, you're not dumber than dirt. I've read what you've written, and that tells me you're not dumber than dirt. We've talked on the phone at great lengths, and those conversations tell me you're not dumber than dirt. Your insight into likely human failure modes tells me that you're not dumber than dirt. You, Tad, have a lot to offer, and I'm just trying to help you offer it without offending the people you could reach.

Tad, there are many many topics that I generally avoid on these forums. For example, I could easily find myself in disagreement with about 50% of the hang glider pilots over something like global warming. I could probably cut the remaining 50% in half again by taking a stand on what to do about the budget deficit. I could further cut that remaining 25% in half yet again by getting into an argument over Ginger versus Mary Ann. So in just three issues, I'd be able to alienate about 87.5% of the pilots!! That would make it impossible for me to hold together the 234 current members of the Torrey Hawks who share the common goal of wanting hang gliding to be treated fairly at that site.

Now that doesn't mean that I don't have an opinion about whether or not global warming exists. It doesn't mean that I don't have an opinion about the budget defict. And it doesn't mean that I don't have an opinion about Ginger versus Mary Ann. But I'm here on this forum trying to bring pilots together so we can work toward our common goals rather than fighting with each other on the nearly infinite number of topics which could divide us. That's something worth remembering.

This:

Yeah, I don't even read all of those long winded "explanations".

however, REALLY PISSES ME OFF.

Davis led by example and created an environment in which every imaginable expression of disrespect and contempt and attack on me was encouraged. Sam went along with the cult.

I don't know what Sam went along with or not. But if you want a case study on long winded explanations, please read this 82 page topic:

http://www.hangglidingassociationofamerica.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=65

That topic was about voting methods for the HGAA and I accounted for about 1/3 of the posts. I tried every way imaginable to get them to understand that "Range voting" was an inferior system. I gave explanations. I wrote programs. I gave examples. I drew diagrams. I answered questions. But for better or worse, most members of that team just didn't have the time to "do the math" and understand what I was trying to say. I could hate them all for that, or I could realize that they just had other things that were more important to them. That's life. That's humanity. That's what you and I have to deal with when we're trying to influence people to make what we clearly see as the right decision. That's the job we take on when we want to change the world ... or even one teeny tiny part of it. We either learn to accept that and forgive the people who don't have the time to follow every word, or we end up isolating ourselves and not accomplishing what we know is right.

I have been engineering and describing better ways of towing and flying for decades to the point that I'm now ninety percent of the way off the deep end.

I've invited you to this forum to pull you back from that deep end. I think Zack has done the same on kitestrings. We see value in you and your knowledge and your passion and your energy. But there are people who want to drive you into that deep end because that's how they can marginalize you. They win every time you lash out with anger and profanity. That helps them point to you and say "See, that guy's nuts". They're pushing you to make angry statements. They're pushing you to lash out at good people like Sam. That's how they isolate you. That's how they win. Don't let them do that.

But it's always the legions of Sams talking about how wonderful people like Steve Wendt are who make sure that none of it ever gets into circulation. And it's the Sams and Steves that have cost me my own flying career. Think about how that would make you feel.

Joe Greblo is a wise fellow. He warned me very early that my efforts to reform Torrey would anger enough people that I might eventually find it uncomfortable to remain in the flying community. He was right. It has become uncomfortable. But I haven't given up because there are also a lot of good people out there. While I certainly get my share of hate mail, I also get encouragement and thanks from people who've seen what I've accomplished. Sam has been one of those. He's risked his own reputation to stand with me. I'm sure that puts a target on his back, but he does it because it's what he believes is right. From that perspective alone, I think you may have an incorrect picture of him. I hope you'll reconsider. It's very human to make a dismissive off-hand remark. I'm sure I've done it, and I'm sure you have as well. Just as with the Ginger and Mary Ann issue, we have to look past some of our differences to see the larger common goals that we share. Failing to do so only helps your real enemies to further isolate you. Again, don't let them do that.

Let's just take this slowly and see if we can make some progress. Thanks for bearing with me.

And thanks for staying with me but let's not take things too slowly and reinvent too many wheels. And please keep checking things at Kite Strings - that'll make the going a lot easier.

Fair enough. Please feel free to post links to Kite Strings topics on this forum, and please post links to this forum on Kite Strings.

Thanks for your time in reading this.

Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski

[TadEareckson]

No, you're not dumber than dirt.

One NEVER gets in trouble by assuming one - or anyone else - IS.

Mitch Shipley - 2011/01/31

Jim,

Enjoy your posts, as always, and find your comments solid, based on hundreds of hours / tows of experience and backed up by a keen intellect/knowledge of the issues when it comes to most things in general and hang gliding AT/Towing in particular. Wanted to go on record in case anyone reading wanted to know one persons comments they should give weight to.

Lauren Tjaden - 2006/02/21

I thought I should post this since the phone keeps ringing with friends worried about Jim and wanting information. Here is what I know. Yes, the Jim in the article is OUR Jim, Jim Rooney. It was a tandem hang gliding accident, and it involved a power line.

I have no more information about the accident itself. The passenger apparently was burned and is hospitalized, but is not seriously injured. Jim sustained a brain injury. He was and is heavily sedated, which means the doctors don't know and can't test for how serious the brain injury is. He is in critical but stable condition. Tomorrow (which should begin soon in New Zealand) the doctors will begin to reduce his medication, and they will have more information at that time. There are no neck or spinal injuries.

This information has been passed on to me through a chain of several people, so while I think it is all accurate, I am not sure. Lisa from Quest is in contact with Jim's family and also with Jim's employers in NZ. She will send hospital information so you can send good wishes. She will also keep us updated on the most current news about Jim. In the meantime, please do not call NZ or Lisa at Quest. This is a difficult time as many of us love Jim very much, and I know you are all anxious for news, as we are.

That is what - INVARIABLY - happens to people with hundreds of hours/tows of experience backed up by keen intellects / knowledge of the issues when it comes to most things in general and hang gliding AT / Towing in particular, their students, and passengers. That genius is a product of my good friends at Ridgely and Blue Sky. They ALSO have keen intellects and know they do 'cause people like Lauren and Holly keep telling them they do. And that's why people like Lauren and Holly keep finding themselves welded to towlines and spending seasons getting put back together by surgeons instead of flying.

Davis has a keen intellect:

http://ozreport.com/pub/fingerlakesaccident.shtml

I used to have a keen intellect. I'd be walking a whole lot better now if I had always been dumber than dirt. I NEVER wanna have a keen intellect again.

Your insight into likely human failure modes tells me that you're not dumber than dirt.

Pretty simple really... The Wrong Stuff - Always assume that your next move will be a mistake and plan, equip, and act accordingly.

You, Tad, have a lot to offer, and I'm just trying to help you offer it without offending the people you could reach.

Rob Kells - 2005/12

Following a recent fatal accident caused by the pilot (Bill Priday, a Steve Wendt victim - I mean STUDENT) launching unhooked, there has been a discussion on how to guarantee that you are hooked in. The two main methods are:

1. Always do a hang check before launch, and/or

2. Always hook your harness into the glider before you get into the harness.

Interestingly, NEITHER of these methods GUARANTEES that you will not launch unhooked some day. Let's add a third one:

3. Always lift the glider vertically and feel the tug on the leg straps when the harness mains go tight, just before you start your launch run. I always use this test.

Among my partners (Steve Pearson and Mike Meier) and me, we have over 25,000 hang glider flights and have managed (so far) to have hooked in every time. I also spoke with test pilots Ken Howells and Peter Swanson about their methods (another 5000 flights). Not one of us regularly uses either of the two most popular methods outlined above. Each of us agrees that it is not a particular method, but rather the fear of launching unhooked that makes us diligent to be sure we are hooked in every time before starting the launch run.

There is nobody who didn't like Rob. Rob never offended ANYBODY. I'm also pretty sure that he never REACHED ANYBODY.

Jim Rooney - 2010/05/30

BTW, Steve (Wendt) is exceptionally knowledgeable. Hell, he's the one that signed off my instructor rating.

He obviously had no effect whatsoever on either of these geniuses.

While we're on the subject...

Sam Kellner - 2010/10/24

Thanks for posting here and the pics are great. !Preflight & hang check!

Guess Sam was one of many hang glider people who couldn't bothered to read Rob's long winded "explanation". He's now - for the time being anyway - off of my list of people with whom I'm trusting my nephew and I'm not real interested in helping him working to build up hang gliding in a South Texas either.

ChattaroyMan is clueless on this issue as well.

Wanna take the lead in trying to fix these guys? I'm tired of having to do it all by myself just about all the time.

That would make it impossible for me to hold together the 234 current members of the Torrey Hawks who share the common goal of wanting hang gliding to be treated fairly at that site.

My goal is not to hold things together. Procedures and equipment wise, hang gliding is a big stupid global monolith. It's using hang checks and the Aussie Method to confirm hook-is status, bent pins for releases, and weak links as lockout protectors from here to Australia and every place in between no matter how you get there. And cohesiveness and camaraderie are the problems.

My goal is to start wars. My goal is to arm people like Zack and Larry with the best hardware and training possible and hope that Davis and Jim hit a little harder next time. My goal is to shut Steve down next time one of his students finds himself welded to the towline with a bent pin release or freefalling in front of the escarpment at Whitwell while his glider's making plans without him.

Now that doesn't mean that I don't have an opinion...

My issues have NOTHING to do with OPINIONS.

Nobody who's ever tried to blow a sidewire just before a launch has ever blown one just after a launch.

People who always assume they're not hooked in at launch have astronomically higher survival rates than people who always assume they are.

People who always verify that they're hooked in at the front of the ramp within two seconds of launch have astronomically higher survival rates than people who do hang checks at the back of the ramp.

Foot launching a glider for a tow flight is about a thousand times more dangerous than a dolly or platform launch.

Nobody's ever launched unhooked from a dolly or platform.

Glider control is almost always adequate with two hands on the basetube and almost never with one.

I can blow seven hundred pounds of tow tension with a seventeen pound pull on a straight pin barrel whereas you'd need a hacksaw to make a bent pin job work at that tension.

You can lock out, slam in, and kill yourself with your release closed and the loop of 130 pound Greenspot at the top end of your two point aerotow bridle intact.

Light weak links are ten thousand times more dangerous than no weak links.

If your weak link blows, your release auto triggers, or your tug driver cuts you loose out of concern for your safety at the wrong time you can be killed instantly.

Landing at an airport you're about a thousand times more likely to rip an arm out of its socket trying to land on your feet than you are trying to roll in on your wheels.

Jim Rooney couldn't have gotten through one of my fourth grade reading, history, math, or science classes with a gun to his head even before he further scrambled it after losing his grip on the basetube.

But for better or worse, most members of that team just didn't have the time to "do the math" and understand what I was trying to say.

I don't have time to do the math on that issue. But based on what I know about you I've got a pretty good idea that you have and would support your call. But if I'm gonna weigh in there and shoot my mouth off I'm gonna read all freakin' 82 pages and check the math.

The main reason towing is such a total disaster is 'cause NOBODY checked Donnell Hewett's math. And all you needed to do was check a few samples here and there to see that the whole thing was gonna fall apart.

Now here's MY long winded (Laughing Out Loud) (Laughing Out Loud) (Rolling Eyes) "explanation"...

Sam,

>
Do you think that release in your avatar is fail safe?
<

If you can grab the barrel of the similar release with which I fly and pull it back it will - INFALLIBLY - dump you off tow with any towline tension between between 26 ounces and over 750 pounds.

Since my weak link blows at around 468 pounds that's a lot of overkill.

And since the Dragonfly drivers don't really give a rat's a** about the weak link on their end of the line that tends to be a HUGE amount of overkill.

If the towline tension were below that minimum I'd need to use two hands.

The release in my avatar, by the way, is under a direct load of 400 pounds (i.e. 800 pounds towline tension) and can be actuated with a pull of just under 20 pounds.

BUT...

There are occasional situations in towing - and, more to the point, OFF TOWING - in which you WILL die if you take your hand off the basetube, so - practically speaking - no freakin' way is it fail safe.

HOWEVER...

If you take the trouble to rig that release so's that you can fire it with both hands on the basetube - which I have done a couple of different ways - then yeah, it IS absolutely fail safe. And if you mount it on the keel you can get the slack line performance down to zero.

He asked a question that couldn't be answered "yes" or "no", I took the time and effort to answer it as honestly, respectfully, thoroughly, and concisely as I could, but it was too goddam much trouble for him to even read it. Fine. Then get the hell out of the conversation. But don't blather on pissing all over my work and saying whatever the phuck you feel like to the delight of a bunch of useless Davis and Jack Shows dickheads.

I've invited you to this forum to pull you back from that deep end. I think Zack has done the same on kitestrings.

Here's why Zack started Kite Strings...

In September of 2010, hang gliding safety activist Tad Eareckson entered a discussion on the Houston Hang Gliding & Paragliding Association's that would result in his being banned from the group within two months. But despite the controversy over Tad's 'arrogance' and 'condescending tone,' I was impressed by his knowledge, logic, and respect for science, which included a great deal of his own research and experimentation. My attempts to carry out a rational discussion with him were continually sabotaged and eventually aborted by other group members, many with little interest in or comprehension of the discussion.

He started it 'cause no matter where you go there's always gonna be a bunch of destructive Sam clones making sure nothing good ever happens.

But there are people who want to drive you into that deep end because that's how they can marginalize you.

They've got me marginalized. That's permanent, irreversible. I've accepted it. So I use it to my advantage. Suicide bombers come out of marginalized populations. Agree with their objectives or not, suicide bombers are extremely effective. That's why I scared the shitt out of USHGA a couple of years ago. I can't do this job unless I'm marginalized.

That helps them point to you and say "See, that guy's nuts". They're pushing you to make angry statements.

When I treated Tracy Tillman with a measure of civility that he didn't in any way deserve he just walked away without bothering to respond to anything I said or asked and I got piled on by the other fu**ing morons on Peter Birren's forum until he locked me out. When I called him (Tracy) a fu**ing moron - which he is - on Jim Gaar's forum I got the reaction I wanted. I need to identify the bent people along with the bent pins so's folk will know what's dangerous out there and I can say told ya so.

While I certainly get my share of hate mail, I also get encouragement and thanks from people who've seen what I've accomplished.

Me too. Including right after I called Tracy a fu**ing moron.

Sam has been one of those. He's risked his own reputation to stand with me. I'm sure that puts a target on his back, but he does it because it's what he believes is right.

Fine. But there sure wasn't anybody risking anything to give me covering fire on the Linknives thread. And if you read my 2010/04/02 09:49:36 post you can see where I predicted the Shane Smith fatality. But nobody did anything to help me save him from the Straub/Rooney Incorporated.

And we all remember what happened to the discussion AFTER the Shane Smith fatality (see title and opening post of this thread) - so the clock is running on the next one. But I don't hear Sam going out there - or here - and doing anything about it.

I hope you'll reconsider.

I'll start reconsidering when I see him relight the Linknives thread, revise some of his statements on my work, and tell Jim, Jason, Butch, Miller, Steve, and Davis to go phuck themselves.

It's very human to make a dismissive off-hand remark.

I count about ten from Sam on that thread - and they go WAY beyond dismissive and off-hand.

I'm sure I've done it, and I'm sure you have as well.

1. I have NEVER engaged ANYBODY in a discussion the way Sam engaged me. I defy you to find anything remotely similar.

2. And if I had I'd have done something to fix it after I sobered up a bit.

Failing to do so only helps your real enemies to further isolate you. Again, don't let them do that.

I'm a million times more dangerous to Ridgely than I was when I flew there a dozen times a year. I was a corrupt slimeball when they were towing me - biting my tongue and looking the other way whenever I'd see the insane bulls*** they were pulling. I can do isolation. I'm pretty good at it. Lotsa practice.

Thanks for your time in reading this.

Very little I'd rather do, thanks for writing it.

red - 2011/02/22
Utah

I do not recommend "stepping" on a cable (I assume you mean in mid-span) as part of a preflight. If your foot hits the ground with the cable underneath, or sand or rocks are trapped in your shoe treads, you could damage the cable that you are testing.

You understand that there's a real good chance you'd be dead now if you followed red's recommendation and ignored the preflight procedure that's in all the Wills Wing manuals? Hang gliding has gotta stop being opinion based aviation.

And PLEASE gimme a write up of your unloaded gun incident along with this missing pin one. I can turn both of them into totally awesome teaching tools.

[TadEareckson]

Sam Kellner - 2011/04/20

Re: Hugh McElrath's paragliding accident

Man,

Sure wish you the best with recovery. Those bones heal. Sounds like you can tough it out and get over it.

Already wiggling your toes, see!

Best regards,
Sam

Three years ago I set Hugh up with a full state of the art custom primary and secondary/emergency aerotow release system. Built in one-of-a-kind job for his U2 160 - Basetube Bungee, Ribbon Bridle, Bridle Links, Barrel secondary, Four-String emergency. If you throw out the engineering the job was worth eight hundred bucks if it was worth a penny. I'd have been OK with half that. But he never quite got around to paying. And then the political landscape - some of which he controlled - changed such that it became extremely convenient for him to permanently phuck me over (speaking of conflict of interest). And he's got money to burn - and does.

At Kite Strings you can check out his last correspondence to me and my last correspondence to him - which I made public immediately upon receipt of the joyous news.

So instead of wishing well some total scumbag who got what he deserved, how 'bout helping me save the next Bill Priday, Kunio Yoshimura, Steve Elliott, or Yossi Tsarfaty?

[TadEareckson]

From your second to last post elsewhere...

Bob K

He also has the right to ban anyone from his club's forum who he feels is undermining the purposes of his club.

Wow. Deja vu.

One of the purposes of the Houston Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association is to have just about all of its pilots constantly violate the conditions of their USHGA ratings by skipping hook-in checks and have their gliders go flying without them at Barker Dam and slam back down on the runway at Hearne Municipal Airport while hanging from the control bar, break their backs, and tie up lotsa cops, EMTs, ambulances, and helicopters.

Last fall after trying to get them to start complying with the conditions of their ratings and failing miserably I wrote the airport and advised that they immediately suspend foot launch towing operations until the club presented a plan to have its participants start behaving in a responsible manner.

Zack, serving as club forum moderator, responded with some posting rules...

No attempts to interfere with, undermine, or threaten the existence or activities of HHPA.

New information or ideas are welcome, but avoid belaboring points.

I came back with...

What if those activities are irresponsible, illegal, and dangerous?

Say you have a spot landing contest at Hearne. Ten rounds, land outside the circle you have to down a shot of vodka before you go back up.

If I attempt to interfere with those activities do I get silenced?

...

So if the USHGA regulation is that:

>
With each flight, demonstrates method of establishing that pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
<

and it's obvious that no one's adhering to it and people are getting hurt, do I just shut up about it and wait for the next Bill Priday or Kunio Yoshimura to get splattered? Or should I keep harping about it in hopes of sparing maybe just one family what others have had to go through?

Zack...

You make a good point...maybe I should change 'activities' to 'objectives' (as defined in our AOA at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hhpa/files/).

...

I'm going to allow a lot of latitude on this rule, but in the end the group exists for its members. If you keep saying the same thing over and over and no one is responding, clearly no one is interested in the topic any more. If people don't want to change, that's their decision, and repeating your point is just going to annoy them.

In South Texas last year there were two unhooked launches, one with a serious injury, one fatal stall back into the slope, and one lockout fatality. And the only thing of any substance they appeared to accomplish was to ban me from their forum by making up some rules on the fly and applying them to me retroactively.

[Bob Kuczewski]

From your second to last post elsewhere...

Bob K

He also has the right to ban anyone from his club's forum who he feels is undermining the purposes of his club.

Wow. Deja vu.

You know I'm not very fond of people being banned. I think the other forums have shot themselves in the foot (or at least the little toe) by banning so many good contributors. But that's good news for us here on the US Hawks!!

Having said that, I would like the individual chapters to be able to set their own policies on their own forums. Fortunately, I think this version of phpBB allows that to be done. So here's the permission system that I see growing on this forum:

1. With the exception of obvious spam, anyone should be able to post somewhere in the Free Speech Zone. So that gives everyone the ability to get their message out. Neither Davis nor Jack have any provision for that on the Oz Report or hanggliding.org respectively.

2. Anyone who's known as a real person (i.e. they either use their real name or their real name is known to me) should be able to post in most of the national forum.

3. There may be temporary areas (like the Otto Marker forum, for example) which are being used privately for a specific project, but everything in those topics should eventually become public when the need for privacy has passed.

4. Individual clubs can enforce their own policies for the operation of their forums. So far this hasn't been an issue, and all Chapter forums are currently available to all approved users. But being banned from one club's forum would not prohibit a member from posting to other forums on this site.

So that's what I'm trying to do with this site. I know there are some real "characters" in our sport, but I think they have a lot to offer. My goal is to give everyone a place where they can interact with other pilots with as few restrictions as practical.

Tad, even if any club were to ban you from their club's forum, you would still be able to make your case in either the national forums or in the Free Speech Zone. In other words, you wouldn't simply "disappear" from hang gliding as Davis and Jack have tried to enforce. At least that's my hope.

Bob K.

[TadEareckson]

You know I'm not very fond of people being banned.

As I've said before...

With what I'm trying to do at Kite Strings I'm EXTREMELY fond of seeing people banned. You need people with brains at the top to tell the dregs that tend to do most of the flying what they can and can't do - just like in REAL aviation.

"Yeah, you can loop that thing if you want but not without a parachute three hundred feet over a crowd gathering for a Fourth of July fireworks display."

"Yeah, you can tow that thing behind an ultralight but you've gotta have weak links between one and two Gs at both ends and the one up front has gotta be fifty pounds heavier that the one at the back."

And you can't have stupid people with nothing to say saying it and sabotaging and derailing the discussions - just like you can't in a university environment.

Jim Rowan - 2008/08/28

Tad, you really are a piece of work. You should submit your resume to Will Wing or Moyes as I'm sure they'd welcome your engineering expertise and efforts to light the collective light bulb. lol

Hell will always have plenty of space for "people" like JR.

THESE guys...

Fredrik Sandquist - 2009/01/28

Unhooked Death Again - Change our Methods Now?

>
No we don't. We train them wrong and send them up with equipment that WE KNOW won't work when we need it too and do VIRTUALLY NOTHING DIFFERENT after one them gets mangled or killed.
<

How the hell can you write this kind of crap about people and accidents I don't think you know a thing about? You "know" it is the training, you "know" people change nothing, you "know" someone send up other people with bad equipment. You "know" a lot about things that I don't think you know anything at all about.

>
Try this experiment...
<

Yes, all hg pilots are complete idiots except the all knowing genius Tad.

You might have a point about hang checks but the rhetoric used in this thread is probably not going to result in anything good. You are just extremely annoying with all your insinuations and better than everyone else attitude.

Tormod - 2010/02/13

"Lift and tug" is only possible if you got a old style harness with fixed attachment points at the hips, for the rest of us who have good modern comfy harnesses with a hangstrap slider and hanging low, it would require us to lift the glider impossibly high. This method applies only to old equipment and I wish Tad would shut up about it.

I attach the harness before putting it on AND check the connection after putting on the harness, so it's a mix of methods.

What really makes my blood freeze is watching guys carrying gliders with their harness on and unhooked, no way this is safer than hooking in no matter how gusty it is. In my seventeen years of flying I've seen one guy flipped on launch because of carelessness and one guy flipped because the wire "help" pulled down the nose with the back into the wind. It's just a matter of controlling the glider on the ground, and that as all things needs to be practiced on. Do it on a windy day, on landing or start with or without help.

...(both from Norway, as it happens) you REALLY WANT in the conversation 'cause they've got brains, sincere beliefs, integrity, and something to say. And you can learn stuff from them and progress is possible for everyone. And progress WAS made.

I think the other forums have shot themselves in the foot (or at least the little toe) by banning so many good contributors.

I think the other forums are doing FANTASTIC by banning so many good contributors. Look at their numbers and levels of participation. Look at ours.

Hang gliding isn't a science - it's a religion. Religion demands unquestioning obedience, burnings of infidels at the stake, and human sacrifices. Hard to argue against the success of the Spanish Inquisition.

Cult leaders like Davis, Jack, and Peter Birren aren't gonna benefit from or tolerate good contributors. Excommunicate the heretics and blasphemers and nobody questions your competence or authority and everybody gets along great. And there are always plenty of the faithful left over to take flights dedicated to the memories of the ones that don't.

HHPA ARTICLES OF ASSOCIATION
ARTICLE I - NAME
The name of the Club shall be The Houston Hanggliding, Paragliding Association (HHPA).
ARTICLE II - OBJECTIVES
1. To promote a feeling of fellowship and establish closer relations and communication among people interested in hang gliding, paragliding and other non-powered, foot-launched flight, including mountain flying and towing.
2. To, encourage other people to become interested in this sport, and to inform and educate those who do become interested.
3. To encourage sportsman-like conduct when flying.
4. To conduct and organize contests and other activities.
5. To obtain and maintain suitable flying sites.
6. To promote safety in flying.
7. To promote group travel to distant sites.

If you wanna kill as many people as possible you:

eliminate any traces of checks, balances, and accountability by promoting feelings of fellowship and establishing closer relations;

encourage as many people as possible to get in the air and compete with each other (spot landing, XC, aerobatics contests are hard to beat);

provide as many opportunities as possible for them to get airborne; and

put safety down at sixth place on your list of priorities - just cushioned from the bottom of the stack by encouraging as many people as possible to kill themselves at other places too.

And then make forum rules forbidding anyone to attack or challenge that structure.

Anybody else got a nephew he wants to send into an environment like that? On an airline which maintains a feeling of fellowship and has established close relations with FAA regulators and inspectors? On a route that takes him over the Everglades?

Tad, even if any club were to ban you from their club's forum, you would still be able to make your case in either the national forums or in the Free Speech Zone. In other words, you wouldn't simply "disappear" from hang gliding as Davis and Jack have tried to enforce. At least that's my hope.

Thanks, but I'll be a lot happier when I start seeing more evidence of people either adopting or challenging the cases I make. Many long before me have been making these cases - but so far everyone seems to have been just wasting his time.