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Re: Los Angeles, California

Postby JoeF » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:14 am

See large image of the Belmont Kite Zone sign:
http://www.sandydan.com/sports/kitesurf/beaches/belmont/nd6880c.jpg
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Re: Los Angeles, California

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:08 am

JoeF wrote:See large image of the Belmont Kite Zone sign:
http://www.sandydan.com/sports/kitesurf/beaches/belmont/nd6880c.jpg

This is a super example of how such a site can be operated.

Thanks for your research and your testimony before the Board of Supervisors!

:salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute:
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Re: Los Angeles, California

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:12 am

On the Sylmar Forum, Doug posted this:

dhmartens wrote:The back on topic Bob and Joe videos at Los Angeles Board of Supervisors are extremely important to every member of SHGA, hang glider pilots in California, and people interested in justice and its cost. It could alter the hang gliding landscape in Sylmar and California in ways we cannot perceive and all because of Mark Forbes vendetta against BobK. And all because BobK revoked Mark Forbes "License to Kill".


That is the most succinct and accurate analysis of the situation that I've seen. Well said and thank you Doug!!! :thumbup:
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Re: Los Angeles, California

Postby Rick Masters » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:28 am

And all because BobK revoked Mark Forbes "License to Kill".

Image
        "Golly, I hope this BokK guy doesn't revoke my license!"
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Re: Los Angeles, California

Postby JoeF » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:54 pm

I rescind my push for the Open HG Belmont Kite Zone model for Dockweiler. Thank you, for any reading and time you gave my push. My idealism with some tunnel vision has been morphed by carefully considering JoeG's notes he gave me today. The Dockweiler site is just too close to the bike path and road; Open HG cannot be sufficiently isolated from the many high-risks present. My experience and JoeG's experience (and I am betting yours) would bet that some incidents would occur that would be serious. Even with the high diligence that we have exercised at the site, many close calls occur.

My modified proposal:
Windsports keeps its management excellence while somehow having an option for the public that permits the public to choose not to join the USHPA. The public should not be made to join a private corporation in order to hang glide via the monopoly effected at Dockweiler. A way should be constructed to officially allow BobK to hang glide recreationally at Dockweiler without having to be a member of USHPA; if extant contract does not allow BobK to recreationally hang glide at Dockweiler, then work should be done to tweak the contract with an amendment; maybe a lawyer could find some way in the extant contract to make official way for BobK to hang glide at Dockweiler. Let BobK fly while under the supervision of Windsports without requiring BobK to be a member of USHPA.

Thank you guys in advance for reading the above.

[[ In another light, maybe a different beach site could be isolated from roads and bikeway and beachgoers so that HG could face the smooth winds of the Pacific and have much less risk to third parties. No insurance. No USHPA required. Then Belmont Kite Zone model! ]]

Thank you, JoeG, for your time and careful reply to my former proposal.
And thank you for all the good works you have done for so many in HG and more.
Best,
JoeF
Last edited by JoeF on Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Los Angeles, California

Postby magentabluesky » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:57 pm

If you would be interested in the FAA’s view of Exclusive Rights, the information and history can be found in the Advisory Circular No. 150/5190 series, ie: 150/5190-6, 150/5190-7, etc.

Sample subjects, Exclusive Rights at Federally-Obligated Airports, Minimum Standards for Commercial Aeronautical Activities, etc.

This is just to sample how the FAA’s thinks on the subject and the guidelines they promote.
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Re: Los Angeles, California

Postby JoeF » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:15 pm

Thanks Michael !

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/advisory_circular/150-5190-6/150_5190_6.pdf
"Existence of an exclusive right at an airport limits
the usefulness of the airport and deprives the public of the benefits that flow from competition. "


There may be something illegal in the contract that is extant for Dockweiler HG.
Perhaps a judge or jury could find it mandatory to permit BobK to fly Dockweiler and Torrey and be under the California recreation-use-of-lands statute and under the equity that is given to bicyclists, rollerbladers, surfers, kiteboarders, etc. The Supervisors are big on equitable access to the public; excluding BobK may cause a test of the whole contract.


https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/advisory_circular/150-5190-7/150_5190_7.pdf
The terms imposed on those who use
the airport and its services must be reasonable and applied without unjust discrimination, whether by
the airport sponsor or by a contractor or licensee who has been granted a right by the airport sponsor
to offer services or commodities normally required to serve aeronautical users of the airport.
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Re: Los Angeles, California

Postby JoeF » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:20 am

There might be a defect in the concessionaire's contract that discriminates against civil rights of the public; Michael G. in forum has invited a study of ideas involved in some FAA advisories about airports using government assets; though Dockweiler is not an airport, the ideas brought up might have application on the matter of excluding people for not joining a third-party private organization when using a public-land site. BobK's case may be a litmus test that could concern every person. I wonder what a jury would decide. The effective management of the site may be a distinct matter from some illegal or unconstitutional defect in the contract. Some sharp legal analysis may be needed to review the contract for some potential exclusionary discrimination that could then be resolved by amendment. Keep the tight management, but do not force the public to join a third-party private corporation to use a State recreational asset.
~ JoeF
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Re: Los Angeles, California

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:31 am

On a related note, Joe and I attended the SHGA Board meeting yesterday. The meeting went very smoothly, and in the new business section I expressed an interest in flying at Sylmar again. The club was very gracious in laying out the restrictions on non-USHPA members, and Ken Andrews walked the boundaries with Joe and I.

At the end of the tour I pointed out that USHPA's expulsion was forcing me to appeal directly to landowners (such as the County of Los Angeles), and I asked Ken - who is a USHPA Director - about looking into reversing my expulsion. Ken again reiterated that I would first have to agree to stop bringing complaints about Torrey Pines to the San Diego City Council. I began to respond with the unconstitutionality of that requirement when Ken abruptly ended the conversation and walked away.

USHPA: A monopoly insurance company and a corrupt DMV ... all rolled into one.
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Re: Los Angeles, California

Postby JoeF » Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:05 pm

Open letter to Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors, April 9, 2017
Dear Honorable Supervisors:
Hilda L. Solis, Mark Ridley-Thomas, Sheila Kuehl, Janice Hahn, and Kathryn Barger,

You have the power to respect how well supervised hang gliding at Dockweiler results in a great safety performance record! Grade: A+.
Please use that power of discernment and then put that supervised site-specific bunny hang gliding with equal-footing insurance-wise as you serve bicycling, roller blading, board surfing, kite boarding. There is in place process at Dockweiler that is unfairly excluding factions of the public from fair participation in the supervised hang gliding activity; the process involves maneuvers that would be repugnant to the grand principles that the County has championed in its service to the people of the County.

The supervised activity has earned the respect of leaders of the hang gliding world. Please join to see what they see. The safety record of the supervised hang gliding following simple meaningful rules has brought Los Angeles acclaim. It is time to stop the focused burden of special insurance requirement over the recreational part of the supervised hang gliding; the business of selling lessons and of renting gear is another matter that needs that business to cover itself in its special relationship with its direct patrons. But the seasoned recreationist using his or her own gear and not placing themselves under paid instruction need not be covered by that business' sales-relationship liability where the instructor is controlling the very specific actions of pupils. Please treat the seasoned recreationist (still under supervision for the clear simple rules of the premise) without adding the burden of extra insurance as is now the case which is excluding some of your citizens from participating in their recreation that they have had as habit for over 50 years in Los Angeles for some.

Keep a strong waiver in place as part of the supervision that releases everyone in the world and every entity in the world from tort upon a seasoned recreationist being injured, but not a waiver that is unfairly forcing the joining of a private corporation, even if that corporation was benign, which that corporation is not for several reasons. The present exclusionary process being effected at the County's historical hang gliding park could resolve by the Supervisors knowing the A+ safety performance record under the supervisory model and then treating the site-specific supervised hang gliding with equity as the County treats board and body surfing, swimming, kite boarding, rollerblading, bicycling, etc. Please find these matters shining; and then please act to install the equity described.

Thank you for your wise supervision over Los Angeles County in service to its citizens and visitors, myself included,
Joe Faust
Co-founder of the organization that later morphed to be a poor keeper of hang gliding's interests at many fronts.
Resident of the Los Angeles, 90032. Property-tax payer for residence. Resident in Los Angeles County for 74+ years.
Retired mathematics teacher of LAUSD.
Former mathematics instructor at CSULA.
U.S.A. Olympian, Rome 1960, high jump, "from Los Angeles."
Former recreationist of Dockweiler historic hang glider site, now excluded because in good moral conscience I cannot join as member the morphed private organization that effectively has a tight grip on the County's asset in ways the County may not approve, if all was seen in full light. The morphed organization has so married paragliding to the deep detriment of hang gliding service; paragliding has a severe challenge with a built-in wing defect which has been the major cause of most of the 1,550+ known paraglider fatalities.
PS: The gem of Los Angeles, the hang glider park at Dockweiler, under the supervised model, is world's apart from the detrimental paragliding realm, yet that severe morphed organization that supports paragliding is playing a heretonow hidden role in excluding the founder of the United States Hawks Hang Gliding Association and the founder of the United States Hang Glider Association and the co-founder of the United States Hang Gliding Association and the founder of the earlier Self-Soar Association from seasoned recreational hang gliding in the supervised model at Dockweiler. Please protect the gem and serve with equity those who cherish the opportunity to the safe supervised hang gliding activity at Dockweiler.

=============================================

All,
Feel free to send six (6) copies of this letter with your note to the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors, Executive Office, 500 W Temple St #383, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Each supervisor will then get a copy; and the executive office keeps one to stamp and maybe return (not sure) to you.
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