[TadEareckson]

Pilgrim,

What kind of person thinks like this?

1. The kind of person who:

a) has never had a single flight behind a Dragonfly in which his life wasn't needlessly endangered by a person or persons partially or fully controlling the operation;

b) has never once met or heard of a US Dragonfly driver who has made the slightest effort to conduct a flight in compliance with even the hopelessly gutted and watered down USHGA/FAA aerotow regulations which are supposed to provide some measure of protection to the planes at both ends of the string.

c) knows and/or has towed behind Dragonfly drivers like Jim Rooney, Bo Hagewood, Adam Elchin, Zach Woodall, Tracy Tillman, Matt Taber, Jim Gaar, Bart Weghorst, and the late Arlan Birkett.

Chicago Sun-Times - 2005/10/06

Family's suit seeks answers in deadly hang-gliding crash

Steve Patterson - Staff Reporter

Four weeks after a horrific hang-gliding crash killed two people in LaSalle County, one victim's family is demanding answers.

Jeremiah Thompson was killed Sept. 3 while on a tandem hang glider, learning the hobby from Arlan Birkett, owner of Sheridan-based Hang Glide Chicago.

An airplane towed the hang glider into the air, with plans to reach 3,000 feet before the cable was released and their tandem hang glide began, an attorney said.

But two hundred feet into that ascent, the cable snapped, and the hang glider plummeted to the ground, smashing to pieces and instantly killing Thompson and Birkett.

On Wednesday, Thompson's family filed a negligence lawsuit against the company, demanding unspecified damages but also hoping to find out how the crash happened.

"They're two hundred feet in the air, and while normally they would glide to the ground, this hang glider nose-dived to the ground," attorney Matthew Rundio said. "We need to find out why that happened."

2. Possibly Jeremiah Thompson's family.

Absolutely no one I would ever respect, honor or have anything to do with.

Then we're both better off. Win/win. The problem I have, however, is that of the eight participants in this thread to date, you're the ONLY ONE who's managed to keep his REAL identity a total mystery to me.

What a looser.

Than what?

This attitude alone undoes every single thing that guy ever tried to do that was worh while.

And what the hell could could a waste of space like YOU possibly know, understand, or care about any of that?

So what do you have left? Worthlessness with worthless advice. Un f'_cking believable.

Coming from a participant of the 1990 Hobbs Hang Gliding "Festival" I take that as the very highest of compliments.

Bill Cummings - 2011/08/06

I've spent a good bit of time studying Tad's links some of which can be found on:

http://ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=727

I've seen a lot of towing ideas and equipment over my 33 years of towing hang gliders and being towed in hang gliders.

The procedures and equipment that Tad advocates, to me, look to be the best.

Anyone that has a sharp eye for safety will take some time to study his posts.

Minor difference of opinion.

I apologize in advance to the other folks on this site for the 14 page rant that is to come trying to rationalize this unbelievable statement.

Yep, all you people that are too stupid to figure out how not to read something posted on a web forum, Pilgrim is really sorry for having gotten me started.

Good luck because I will not be buying that crap. HHPA was right on to dump this guy. He ain't no good for anything but screwing the pooch.

Gee. I woulda thunk that a good pooch screwer would fit right into the HHPA crowd really well. Since the beginning of last year a couple of hook-in failures and two and a half deaths launch deaths in that neck of the woods. Does USHGA still hand out awards for that kind of thing?

You are dead wrong Zack,
If you do not think integrity is important, I offer Tiger Woods as the poster child for why that is wrong.

With the possible exception of Dave Broyles, participants of the 1990 Hobbs Hang Gliding "Festival" don't get to talk about Tiger Woods or respect, honor, or integrity - EVER.

You should brush up on your constitutional law Zack.

And at what fascist clown college did you do your brushing up?

Free speech does not cover the kind of hate this guy spews.

Damn! I wish I had known that before I stated my intent not to get too choked up about a Rooney, Hagewood, Elchin, Tillman, or Gaar augering in. Guess my posts for the next ten to fifteen will only come as quickly as I can get my messages smuggled out of supermax.

Or maybe they just enforce this in Texas. And even if I go to Texas and get arrested at the border I might get to share a cell with a convicted high school evolution teacher while he awaits his lethal injection execution. And they might even let me out once a year for the big rattlesnake roundup! Could be worse.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Tad, it's clear that you're not reading (or understanding) my short posts, so I'm done reading your long ones.

I stand by what I said in my last post, and I believe that's how we should operate. The pilot is in command, and if he's giving an order to his crew, then the crew follows it. If you want to continue on, then just re-read my last post after whatever you post and consider that as my answer.

Tad, you can post what you want, but I'm giving you a warning about the profanity. I'm asking you to stop using words that can't be used during prime-time broadcast television. Please acknowledge that you've read this. Thanks.

[Rick Masters]

Uh, I still think leaping off mountains is the neatest way to do it. It's a game between me and God. I hear that thermal coming up and I have to read it just right. If I do, it's my elevator. It's my definition of the sport. I wouldn't even get out of bed to tow. That's somebody else's sport. Maybe it's cool. I don't do it. I'm not dissing people who do. I just don't have the slightest interest. Really. If there aren't mountains under me or ahead of me, I get bored. I already know about flatland flying. That's what happens when the mountains run out. Been there. Done that. B-O-R-I-N-G. Funniest thing I ever heard of was years ago some group bringing a tow rig to the Owens and towing up in front of Mazourka. WTF? I mean, WTF? I don't get it. I don't want a rope hitched to my glider. That looks dangerous. It's not my thing. It's somebody else's thing. That's all.

[TadEareckson]

Bob,

Tad, it's clear that you're not reading (or understanding) my short posts...

I most assuredly AM reading every punctuation mark in every post of yours - short or long - to which I respond, I don't think I AM misunderstanding what you're writing, and, if that's indeed the case, your average (semiliterate) diver driver doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell.

I stand by what I said in my last post, and I believe that's how we should operate.

...so I'm done reading your long ones.

1. My last response to you was 535 words - 130 of which were quotes.

2. GREAT! Fifteen second sound-bite aviation! Just what we need.

I stand by what I said in my last post, and I believe that's how we should operate.

Without a doubt.

1. But the only time I can recall ever having a significant incident - a potentially lethal downwind crash - in a launch in which I assisted was the only time I operated consistently with your belief and deferred against my better judgment to the halfwitted "Pilot" "In Command".

2. And the only time you've so far reported having a significant incident - a potentially lethal downwind crash - in a launch in which you assisted, you deferred against your better judgment to the "Pilot" "In Command".

3. And given that I was a dune instructor for about a season and a half that probably makes my batting average a lot better than yours.

The pilot is in command, and if he's giving an order to his crew, then the crew follows it.

Like I said... Not necessarily if I'm on crew. But if he's an actual pilot instead of just some bozo standing under a glider we're not gonna be having any conflicts anyway. And I've never had a conflict with a pilot in any of thousands of assists.

Tad, you can post what you want, but I'm giving you a warning about the profanity.

A "warning"? Which, if ignored, will be followed up with what consequences?

Is there something in the bylaws on this degree of regulation of free speech? Or will it just be on the whim of the dictator - a la the SouthWest Texas precedent

Will there be a list of seven or more really bad words?

How 'bout "tits"? Can we say "The situation was totally tits up."?

How 'bout:

All that added energy though...scares the crap outta me.

Un f'_cking believable.

He ain't no good for anything but screwing the pooch.

pedophile... queer...

WTF? BFD?

Do I hafta refer to Dick Stark as Richard? Like I do on The Jack Show?

I'm asking you to stop using words that can't be used during prime-time broadcast television.

Prime-time television. How I miss watching Jack Bauer torture and/or murder anyone he needed to without using any naughty words. My kinda role model, made me really proud to be an American, an ideal for us all to follow.

Please acknowledge that you've read this. Thanks.

Step 1 - Official Warning
Step 2 - Ultimatum
Step 3 - Lifetime Ban

We got a US Hawks member who believes that saying:

...there aren't a whole lot of Dragonfly drivers that I'm gonna get too choked up about...

constitutes illegal hate speech and thus - correct me if I'm wrong - would support the silencing and imprisoning of the author.

Don't you have anything better to worry about?

[TadEareckson]

Rick,

Uh, I still think leaping off mountains is the neatest way to do it.

Fine.

It's a game between me and God.

1. I don't want that vicious, arrogant, chronic fuckup anywhere within a couple of hundred miles of me and my equipment when I'm launching. I've seen the carnage that gets perpetrated on hang gliding operations by him and his goons.

2. I'm not a real big fan of playing games with hang gliders. (And, just for the record, that doesn't mean I'm opposed to someone starting a loop at three hundred feet.)

I hear that thermal coming up and I have to read it just right. If I do, it's my elevator.

And if you don't you sled down to the LZ, break down, wait for someone else (who's obviously got nothing better to do with his time) to drive down, pick you up, and drive you to the top, set back up, move to launch, and hope that conditions are still suitable enough to give it another try.

Hang Gliding - 1983/03

Aoli, Comet Clones and Pod People

A Tour Of Rick Masters's Ambitious Film About The World's Most Incredible Flying - The Owens Valley

article and illustrations by Hardy Snyman

Hang Gliding - 1983/05

Rope Tricks

by Tom Phillips
photos by Rod Stafford

I am convinced that the "lockout" is history and that the era of towing and flatland flying is at hand. As Rich Pfeiffer says, "I'm tired of driving up mountains."

It's my definition of the sport.

Fine.

I wouldn't even get out of bed to tow.

Fine.

That's somebody else's sport.

Like a lot of the people in aviation in general and hang gliding in particular who developed things enough to make your (and my) participation in it possible.

Maybe it's cool. I don't do it.

But perish the thought that you should waste part of an afternoon to find out.

If there aren't mountains under me or ahead of me, I get bored.

I tend to get bored if there are.

1. Any total moron can boat back and forth all day in reasonable ridge lift and anybody but a total moron is eventually gonna get bored out of his skull doing it.

2. Mountains make great thermal generators and collectors so it tends to not take a whole lot in the way of brains or skill to find and work them in that environment.

3. I think it's a thrilling and amazing experience to gain thousands of feet and stay up for hours - covering ground or, as I prefer to do, just hanging out around the airport - with absolutely no ridge or thermal assist from slopes. And I'm a thousand times more proud of my flatland accomplishments than what I did on the ridges.

Funniest thing I ever heard of was years ago some group bringing a tow rig to the Owens and towing up in front of Mazourka. WTF? I mean, WTF? I don't get it.

TOTALLY! Makes your blood BOIL! Makes you wanna do a midnight raid on the Bishop gliderport and sabotage all the sailplane tugs.

Hang Gliding - 1982/07

George D. Worthington

Something brand-new and wonderful is a about to happen. An announcement has been made that on September 10, 11, and 12, 1982 there will be a soaring contest for ultralights will take in Bishop, California.

It is easy to picture the first reaction of most ultralight owners. Engine-off soaring? My ship won't do it. Interestingly enough, all of them will soar cross-country if the thermal lift conditions are strong enough. But some will obviously do much better than others. Cantilever will seem like a newly discovered important word. Struts will normally triumph over wires for wing bracing. Pilot-fairing will assume new importance, as will aspect ration. There will also be thought given to dead-stick rough-ground landing capabilities, and to airborne-engine-restart capability.

Why turn off a perfectly good engine in the air and rely on the sun power of thermals? In a few words - fun, challenge, excitement? Man's discovery of new ground machines and new machines has always led to contests. Inevitably, a spin-off of ultralight flying will be ultralight motorized soaring machines. Of course, it will take time, just as it took time to develop today's beautiful ultralight machines with their very impressive performance from the first foot-launched motorized hang glider. And using an ultralight for soaring won't be for everybody. Maybe only a special few will discover the thrills and fun to be found in soaring.

And now the first coordinated organized effort is about to take place. Don Partridge and Tom Kreyche who organize and produce the world's finest cross-country hang gliding contests will inaugurate the ultralight contest.

The actual rules and procedures have not yet been settled, but it's a safe guess that they will have a fuel limitation so that the ships will be forced to soar, in order to reach each of the chosen task turnpoints. Probably, the pilots can use the fuel in any manner desired, such as restarting several times in the air to keep from going down. And most likely the distances between turn points will be designated so that at least half of the ships will be able to complete the task. Decisions will have to be made of whether to have just one class or several classes. Certainly, one idea worth exploring is that one class be limited to ships having no fairing around the pilot's body, because, as of today, that is a basic part of the criteria of the ultralight. To have a completely closed cockpit would seem to defeat the whole idea. Maybe we can leave it to the sailplane contingent to inaugurate contests with very light self-launch sailplanes.

So there it is. You have plenty of time to think about it and get in on the fun.

And how 'bout those Infidels who attempted to defile the Spirit of the Owens by running an ultralight motorglider competition out of Bishop?

Hang Gliding - 1977/07

George Worthington

Hang Gliding Needs a Towplane

Guess he got what was comin' to him, huh? Circling over flats at the time too, right?

I don't want a rope hitched to my glider. That looks dangerous.

Well yeah, if something LOOKS dangerous you should just ignore the numbers and believe that it IS. You'll be more comfortable with your world view that way.

Zack C - 2011/03/04

As for platform launching, I was nervous about it when I started doing it. It looked iffy, like things could get bad fast. I've since logged around a hundred platform launches and have seen hundreds more. Never once was there any issue. I now feel platform launching is the safest way to get a hang glider into the air (in the widest range of conditions). You get away from the ground very quickly and don't launch until you have plenty of airspeed and excellent control.

It's somebody else's thing. That's all.

And if nobody's yet carved a road up Mazourka so you can handle the first three and a half seconds of your three and a half hour flight in the manner you must to maintain Purity of Spirit... Well then screw the issues of habitat destruction, erosion, and energy conservation. God obviously doesn't give a rat's a**, why should you? Get those bulldozers rolling - NOW!

[Bob Kuczewski]

Don't you have anything better to worry about?

No. My goal is to build this organization and I've asked for your help. So far, most of that "help" has been calling people names and driving them away. Then you throw in your profanity (which I'm sure doesn't help our site's ratings) and you become more of a burden than an asset.

I've suggested that we work on a towing document (right up your alley) for our organization. So where's your contribution to that? Instead, you just go around calling people names and wishing them dead. As I said before, you seem more interested in righting some perceived past slights against you (by almost everyone) than in actually building a new and better hang gliding organization.

Please say something to disprove that theory. Anything. Thanks.

[TadEareckson]

My goal is to build this organization and I've asked for your help.

USHGA is a rotten, vile, evil organization and I'd like to see an alternative. But right now I'm pretty much seeing US Hawks starting from where USHGA is now and trying to out-sprint it in a race to the south.

So far, most of that "help" has been calling people names...

Can you validate that statement with a word count or something?

...and driving them away.

There is at least one (anonymous) person on the list that I want driven away like a rabid leopard. I'd rather see an alternate to USHGA with ten solid, competent pilots and/or individuals who have that as a goal than ten thousand of the stupid airjocks that typify USHGA membership and the people you're likely to meet at the ramps and airstrips.

Then you throw in your profanity (which I'm sure doesn't help our site's ratings)...

You're SURE? Being sure of something without a shred of evidence to back that confidence I find to be a rather bad idea.

...and you become more of a burden than an asset.

Yeah? Well at least I've got a few two-or-more-way discussions going that are averaging about seven hits a post. That ain't great but it's better than the HGAA ghost town.

And I've brought you a couple of other people who are currently in the ranks of the eighteen in the Double Digit Poster Club.

I've suggested that we work on a towing document (right up your alley) for our organization. So where's your contribution to that?

http://www.energykitesystems.net/Lift/h ... index.html

You can start just by grabbing the aerotowing SOPs and adopting them. Or you can start contacting tug drivers, form a committee, and get the same crap USHGA's been using for the past couple dozen years.

Instead, you just go around calling people names and wishing them dead.

In a better world I'd just go for rating suspensions, revocations, and prosecutions. That ain't never gonna happen so you hafta go with what's most likely to work.

As I said before, you seem more interested in righting some perceived past slights against you (by almost everyone) than in actually building a new and better hang gliding organization.

You're operating under the false assumption that I'm all about "perceived" past personal slights against me. You can slight me all you want - I don't really give a rat's a**. You say and do something to derail or reverse progress in fixing this sport... I have a VERY long and good memory.

Please say something to disprove that theory.

It's not a theory. A theory has data to back it up and can be used to make predictions. All you've got is a hypothesis - which I can do a pretty good job of ripping apart. Check out some of the stuff that's going on at Kite Strings once in a while. And feel free to participate.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Tad,

I've heard a complaint that this topic has gotten off topic, so I'm going to rename it from

     "Re: 2011 US Nationals, Big Spring, Texas"

to something more appropriate and then start the 2011 US Nationals topic again with the proper posts.

Please let me know if you have any problem with that or if you'd like to suggest a better name for what this has become.

Thanks.
Bob Kuczewski

[TadEareckson]

"Gotten" off topic?

Of the now 52 posts on this tread only the very brief first one (yours) had the slightest thing to do with the 2011 US Nationals. But, what the hell, do what you like.

And the discussion has morphed and bounced around so much that you can probably just pick a few random words out of the dictionary to name it.

But, given that Davis is involved with the competition, a lot of these tangents might suddenly all come together and make a lot of sense under the original title.

[TadEareckson]

Zack,

Tad, you obviously have a lot of anger and a need to vent.

OK.

I can look past your bitterness but most people can't.

Neither I nor anybody else is gonna get through to "most people" after they've graduated from Lookout or Ridgely.

Comments like the one that offended Pilgrim add nothing to your case and only alienate the people you're trying to help.

There are a lot of people whom I have no interest whatsoever in helping.

If you truly want to save the sport from the evil idiots, you're going to need to reach as many people as possible.

Most of the people in this sport ARE evil idiots and I need to avoid reaching as many of them as possible. I desperately need them as data generators.

You have way more energy than any of your followers.

I don't want any followers. I love people asking questions of me but I want them checking and questioning my math and challenging me when they think or know it's wrong. I want people to be educated and self sustaining so when I'm taken out of the equation it won't be any great loss.

I'd rather see that energy used efficiently to effect positive change rather than largely driven into the ground.

Keep me busy in rational discussions. Cuts down on the time I have to be in attack mode.

I don't even think you mean a lot of the cynical statements you make...you seem to like making ironic statements for effect...

You can usually tell the ones I'm serious about. But just to be clear... There are a lot of people in this sport who would best serve it by slamming in on the end of a string while trying to pry open a Bailey release with a folded pin and their exits wouldn't bring me any moments of sadness.

...weigh whatever positive you think they have against how they diminish your credibility in most people's eyes.

"Most people" again. Gotta keep thinking of the gene pool. If they care whether or not I'm a total dick I'm probably not interested in keeping them around.

You don't need to change your arguments...just cut out the bitterness and stick to the science. At the very least, you'll end the need for unnecessary discussions like this one...

Pilgrim was there at Hobbs when a person he considered a friend was wasted and - I feel very safe in saying - did NOTHING to help ensure that something didn't happen to other flyers down the road. If that crowd wasn't pretty much totally immune to science - and common sense - that fatality wouldn't have happened in the first place.

At the very least, you'll end the need for unnecessary discussions like this one...

I think it's pretty important to draw people like that out of the woodwork and plaster them with warning stickers to decrease the likelihood of people like you walking into situations you might not come back out of. And anyway, I need to have a little fun myself every now and then.