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Re: Discussion with Tad about Towing / Foot Launch

Postby Bill Cummings » Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:09 pm

Wow I just came back to leave a post and I see I'll have to scroll back and start trying to catch up when I'm done posting. I have a copy/paste just below this introductory. (Is that a word?)

I was thinking of making a focus thread about towing where by If someone wanders off thread I would just copy only the posts that stay on topic and post them on a new "Towing focus thread #2" (and then #3, and #4 etc.)
Maybe I would call it Bill's Towing Focus Group. What do you think everyone?
NOW HERE IS MY POST. NOW I HAVE TO GO BACK AND CATCH UP.>>>>>>>>>>


Bob,
I see that I was not clear enough or didn’t go into great enough detail with my posted reply to your reply: Post by bobk » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:15 pm.

I wasn’t articulate enough to keep Tad on the same page with me on several points but I’ll go back to where I lost hold of Tad in the event that I lost you as well.

“Bill C.---
When I say, "CLEAR!" the driver activates my nose release...

“Tad ---
...you're giving control of what is at that stage the most critical element of your control system to your copilot who's busy piloting another quite different vehicle.

Bill C’s response and now quoting a post earlier in this thread-----

“Bill C.---
“When I say, “CLEAR!” The driver activates my nose release while I hold myself forward and also hold onto the hand holds keeping myself firmly in the launching yokes. When I see the nose has been released I rock myself back and let my fingers be stripped from the hand holds.”

Starting over ---
The platform truck driver (or observer when present) activates my nose release when I say, “Clear!” The driver is assisting me to get aloft with me being the pilot in command.

Starting over again---
Just like the driver assists me when I radio, “If I’m on constant transmit close your door.--I see the door. -- The nose is hot. -- Bar safeties are off. --Go to cruise.”
Before the driver goes to cruise to attain launching speed. I must say all of those sentences one after the other before he moves the truck.

If I only say, “Go to cruise,” he is to stop get out and spank me on the bare butt with a WET wooden spoon. (Remember that threat as a kid Bob?)

Starting over again---
The driver assists me by going to my cruise/launch speed marked on the Hall wind meter.
My driver further assists me by blowing the horn when he sees that I am at my launching speed. I now know that he knows and has confirmed what I can also see that we have arrived at launching speed and that the driver and I are on the same page at this stage of the towing operation.

When I say, “Clear! Clear! Clear!” The driver activates the nose release.

He does not launch me.

I’m still on the platform.

When I see that I am released I then rock back and launch myself or if I so choose I stay on the platform. (I said this last half of the sentence for effect it’s not what I do.)

I like to actually jump up off of the platform (With my feet! A real jump.) I do this so that the driver can feel and knows for sure exactly when the weight has come off of the back of the truck. He might be watching the road like he should be and hopefully not be watching me in the rear view mirror and wondering when he should start worrying about me. With the jump start there is no reason to look in the rear view mirror to see if I‘ve left or not. The driver can feel and know when I leave.

I in no way feel that I have giving control of what is at that stage the most critical element of my control system to my copilot who's busy piloting another quite different vehicle because after he blows the horn he can activate the release, when I command, which doesn’t launch me. I usually launch two to three seconds later.

I have my driver assist me through several stages of my launch sequence up to and beyond when I launch myself.

At lift off I keep a steady verbal radio transmission going to assure the driver that everything is okay and give speed corrections. As I gain altitude I only allow 3 seconds between words since I have instructed my driver to take his foot off of the gas and look back if I don’t talk for any period longer than that.
If I can’t be understood ---slow and look back.
If someone else transmits over my transmission---slow and look back.
If I go completely off transmit ---slow and look back.

Almost without exception a pilot will stop talking when he’s in trouble while towing.
( A short digression to elucidate this point.)---
I once gave Dan “Flare” O’Hara” a running static launch near the town of McGregor, MN. As he lifted off, the right leg/butt strap was draped across his right vas deferens pinching it against his anterior pubic bone. Dan was not talking or was doing so in an octave beyond my hearing range. I came to a slow stop and he landed. He was still on constant transmit but for awhile he uttered nothing. Finally Flare said, “Thank you! Thank you Bill for stopping….” and he went on to tell be what his problem had been using some colorful adjectives that would have made Tad blush!

“Oh S--T!” ---That too means trouble almost without exception.

I tell the driver as he approaches a cross runway if he is clear to cross.
The best way to keep the driver from interrupting the pilot in command is for the pilot to be on constant transmit while towing. If the truck must stop for any reason do so.

At the start of a lock out you never want to find yourself in a situation where your driver just keyed up to say, “Hey Bob k, there is a kettle of hawks thermaling up about ---oh, --- I’d say---- about ---a thousand feet to maybe a thousand five hundred feet above and to the northwest of you but just this side of the hangars. Hangar number two to be exact. Do copy Bob? Over!”

You should always use a coil cord between the radio and your truck’s microphone so that you’ll always have enough cord on hand should you find the need to fabricate a garrote.

Sure the observer should be able to see the lock out but just as with other forms of towing (aero-towing) once you get a lot of towing under your belt there will be just the tug pilot/ truck driver and the pilot. I’m referring to real world situations. Not how it should be. Not what is the safest. Safer would be standing outside the pilot’s lounge videoing the tow operation. (Hopefully.)

More tasks are expected from the driver such as clearing our entrance to a taxi way, crossing intersecting runways or announcing our entry to a runway for take off. All this by means of an aircraft radio.

It is not my intension to write my towing procedure in Encyclopedia format for this post so no one should assume that I have forgotten an important aspect of platform towing. My post is too long already but I am amazed that I haven’t the ability to keep other people on the same page with myself when I put something down in print. For that I apologize.

“Tad ---
1. So can I put you down as agreeing that Item 2:
Bill C.---Yes!
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Re: Discussion with Tad about Towing / Foot Launch

Postby TadEareckson » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:54 am

I wasn't articulate enough to keep Tad on the same page with me...

Just 'cause Tad didn't get it on the first take doesn't mean you weren't articulate enough - could be that Tad was too hardwired from his rather minimal and long ago truck towing experience to listen and think very well.

Sorry to have been slow on the uptake and thanks for the second and extended effort.

Yeah, the separation procedure you describe is very much analogous to what happens in an aerotow dolly launch - 'cept with a much better dolly under much better control.

...since I have instructed my driver to take his foot off of the gas...

Disagree that the default response to a disruption in communications should be a reduction in power. Reduction in tension, increase in angle of attack. There are situations in towing when the glider wants all the tension it can get. (And I've been in them on stationary winch, platform, and aero.)

I came to a slow stop and he landed.

What was stopping him from releasing?

At the start of a lock out you never want to find yourself in a situation where your driver just keyed up...

So now your life is dependent upon a radio communication being transmitted, received, and acted upon correctly and immediately? What's stopping you from releasing?

Sure the observer should be able...

I'm not a fan of observers. I see them as crutches and placebos for crappy tow systems and pilots way more likely to create emergencies than to defuse them.

Safer would be standing outside the pilot’s lounge videoing the tow operation.

That's exactly where I'd insist on mine being.

My post is too long...

No post by someone with a functional brain and something to say is ever too long.

Yes!

Good. Now from that list of twelve we only need to demolish five more and do some serious bending on another five. Then we can work on the stuff that was left out.
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Re: Discussion with Tad about Towing / Foot Launch

Postby Bill Cummings » Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:11 am

Thanks Tad,
Your points are well taken. I'll get back to this as soon as I can so that we can fine tune my procedure. First I have to page back and try to catch up. I didn't get a chance to read your previous post yet ---so off I go now----
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Uncertainity of the Speed of Gravity?

Postby Free » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:44 pm

Inaction is fueled by uncertainty as to whether or not there's a real problem.


I asked one question about real physics.
The implications for a real problem come after that.

It's physical impossibility for steel core structured buildings to come down at the speed of gravity without the steel core taken out by some method other than smouldering office fires, as was reported in the case of the Building 7 collapse.

Again, I'll bring up the fact that the vaunted BBC News falsely reported the collapse of Building 7, about 20 minutes before it actually collapsed. (at the speed of gravity, as per NIST's own admission)
http://www2.ae911truth.org/info/49
http://11syyskuu.blogspot.com/

I was on the road from one of my last hang gliding trips listening on the radio on 9-11.
The radio station I was listening to also falsely reported the building collapsed, then 20 minutes later it collapsed again..

Everyone had their script.. some in the whore media just had it earlier than others.

How can anyone be uncertain of any real problem?

Over 1500 Architects & Engineers have a real problem with the physics observed and you should too.
Or did 19 fanatical hijackers somehow alter the laws of physics on that fateful day?
http://ae911truth.org/
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Re: Discussion with Tad about Towing / Foot Launch

Postby TadEareckson » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:12 pm

Jonathan Dietch - 2011/09/20

The highlight of Day 2 was meeting Org member, Bill Cummings in person and having him assist me a whole bunch on the flight line. Unfortunately I could not chat on radio during the flight due to the stress and distraction to my teammates.

Bill has also stepped up to become my first sponsor! I need to start a sponsor page or such and begin passing the hat so I can continue to fly interesting routes and keep up the editing.

So, I broke my first weak link while towing downwind.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bTa6XL16i0U

So Bill...

What was the G rating of the weak link which kept Jonathan from locking out and/or ripping his wings off on his first flight and by how much did you recommend he lighten it to keep him even safer on his second?
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Re: Discussion with Tad about Towing / Foot Launch

Postby DarthVader » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:02 pm

Well, I'll put my to bits in as well, Do I like towing??? Since I live in flat land, I am going to have to say yes I do, if I had a 5000 ft mountain in my back yard I would say no I don't like towing. 1. At first it is scary, to get up on that line being pulled real fast, kinda makes your heart race a little bit. 2. Once you get use to it, it's not so bad as it appears to be. 3. foot launching of a hill or mountain has it rules, payout has it rules, aerotowing has it rules, if we brake those rules we pay the price, chin-up & eyes toward the sky :wtf:
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Re: Discussion with Tad about Towing / Foot Launch

Postby TadEareckson » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:53 pm

NOBODY with any brains likes towing. At first it's scary and, if you're smart, it'll stay scary - at least until you've got a couple of hundred feet or so under you.

Likewise nobody with any brains likes launching off a slope.

Launching ANYTHING - with or without a string - is dangerous. Launches are necessary evils we use to get us started towards doing what we want to in hang gliding - flying. Preferably high and away from the ground.

And we want to do everything we can pad our chances for survival in these environments. Hooked in, optimal timing on any cycles, lotsa uninterrupted thrust and airspeed, hands on the control frame at all times. And if we can't prevent our gliders from going into hard rolls or stalls in those first critical seconds - using a string or not - we shouldn't expect to survive.
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Supreme Dictator of Planet Earth

Postby Free » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:57 am

TadEareckson wrote:When I become Supreme Dictator of Planet Earth I won't force all aerotow pilots to use wheels - but they WILL all be using one and a half G weak links so I can at least eliminate all the downtube, arm, and neck breaks from the beginning of the flight.


It is a scary thought that anyone so aligned with Davis Straub and the big fat lying thief Al Gore, on the capping and taxation of an infinitesimal but beneficial bit of atmosphere we breath should become Supreme Dictator of Planet Earth!

The watermelon analogy comes to mind.. green on the outside, red on the inside..

That said, one and a half G weak links and a nix on bent pin releases, we might live with.

“Those who seek power are not worthy of that power.”
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Re: Discussion with Tad about Towing / Foot Launch

Postby TadEareckson » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:15 am

Who said anything about SEEKING power? This is just something which will naturally and inevitably happen after enough people figure out that I know what I'm talking about on two or three subjects.

P.S. Here in Maryland I'm getting a little tired of the benefits of that infinitesimal bit of atmosphere we keep spewing out of our power plants and tailpipes. I liked it better when we WEREN'T having four or five hundred year meteorological events every twelve months.
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