US Hawks Hang Gliding Association

Examine the following clause by a site manager in a certain USA place:
"Pilots who wish to fly the site must be current ___(org)____ members. Visiting pilots who are not members will be able to purchase a 30-Day ____(?org)___ membership after arrival."

There is a severe tilt in the phrasing. Let's overlook the "wish" and let that mean more than wishing, but explicit flying. So, a pilot of a HG does fly in the airspace around "the site" but does not take off and does not land using land that is managed by the involved land manager. Such a HG pilot does not have to have membership in the implied "org" to fly in USA appropriate airspace. The land manager is stating more control than is necessary. The land controller might have phrased the matter: "One who takes off or lands on our controlled land will owe a certain duty or respect."

JoeF wrote: So, a pilot of a HG does fly in the airspace around "the site" but does not take off and does not land using land that is managed by the involved land manager. Such a HG pilot does not have to have membership in the implied "org" to fly in USA appropriate airspace.

Yes and that's the same reason PGs have a right to fly the airspace above Funston. They can launch somewhere else and fly over.

brianscharp wrote:

JoeF wrote: So, a pilot of a HG does fly in the airspace around "the site" but does not take off and does not land using land that is managed by the involved land manager. Such a HG pilot does not have to have membership in the implied "org" to fly in USA appropriate airspace.

Yes and that's the same reason PGs have a right to fly the airspace above Funston. They can launch somewhere else and fly over.

Brian,
I’m now remembering, after seeing your post about PG flying Funston after launching from a remote place, a situation adjacent to either Minnesota State Parks or National Forest marine airports that had somehow codified into law that-- (Oh and by the way I apologize for this run on sentence that is typical of my postings.) had some control over the airspace over water adjacent to park land. <yup that’s the first period in that paragraph, I should have been a lawyer.

Anyway, I ran into this problem decades ago where I couldn’t boat tow and soar a ridge adjacent to a park because it was also a marine airport.

“Oh, NO, NO, NO,----that’s not permitted here young man.” (Now 66 last Feb. 9)

So, the future? Maybe urge proprietors to phrase more soundly without presuming the actual airspace is somehow privatized. In the many cases in USA, site managers are making the over-lordship slam;. A change would be nice as the great monopoly of national org is dismantled and replaced by a more friendly open and sharing culture.

On the other hand, the methods of launch are advancing. e-launch portends to be a large equalizer, I am estimating. Bypass any stubborn monopoly-supporting site. Accept the FAA gifts carefully; advance tech to broaden entry to legitimate airspace.

"Passing off goods or services as those of another." http://www.harp.org/clra.htm

Maybe passing off the good of flying in airspace as though one owned that good airspace is a crime.
The Torrey concessionaire seems to be passing off the good of the airspace for flying as though it owned the airspace, which it does not own.

billcummings wrote:...I couldn’t boat tow and soar a ridge adjacent to a park because it was also a marine airport.

Where was your intended landing area?

brianscharp wrote:

billcummings wrote:...I couldn’t boat tow and soar a ridge adjacent to a park because it was also a marine airport.

Where was your intended landing area?

At the time I was using a Moyes stainless steel tow bar with the Moyes float system. Deep water starts and landings. I still have the floats.
Right about now I'm wishing that after moving to the desert southwest that I hadn't sold my boat tow rig. I would be out there so fast towing up in front of Torrey Pines GP and blowing a portable hand boat horn every pass up wind of the concessionaire.
PS EDIT: Without a radio, Park Sticker, signing in, fee, or a whistle ----Is there other BS that I'm forgetting?
Oh, and just out of the jurisdiction of the SDPD. (Bob, you'd like that part of towing.)
We could rig a portable battery powered PA (megaphone) so that Bob could preach to Torrey while soaring.

billcummings wrote:At the time I was using a Moyes stainless steel tow bar with the Moyes float system. Deep water starts and landings. I still have the floats.
Right about now I'm wishing that after moving to the desert southwest that I hadn't sold my boat tow rig. I would be out there so fast towing up in front of Torrey Pines GP and blowing a portable hand boat horn every pass up wind of the concessionaire.
PS EDIT: Without a radio, Park Sticker, signing in, fee, or a whistle ----Is there other BS that I'm forgetting?
Oh, and just out of the jurisdiction of the SDPD. (Bob, you'd like that part of towing.)
We could rig a portable battery powered PA (megaphone) so that Bob could preach to Torrey while soaring.

That sounds rebellious. I'd go with a platform on the boat or launch off the beach. I think salt water plays hell on hang gliders.

Yahooooooo!

This sounds like a great idea. I mentioned to bob (a couple months ago) that a scooter tow set-up at the old (full sized sailplane) glider port could get him in the air - if the university would allow some "student training" demonstrations to take place. Basically, the same idea as Joe is promoting.

By the way, Joe, how did you stumble on that CA law? It's too long to read quickly, but seems to hold some important and relevant info.

billcummings wrote:

brianscharp wrote:

billcummings wrote:...I couldn’t boat tow and soar a ridge adjacent to a park because it was also a marine airport.

Where was your intended landing area?

At the time I was using a Moyes stainless steel tow bar with the Moyes float system. Deep water starts and landings. I still have the floats.
Right about now I'm wishing that after moving to the desert southwest that I hadn't sold my boat tow rig. I would be out there so fast towing up in front of Torrey Pines GP and blowing a portable hand boat horn every pass up wind of the concessionaire.
PS EDIT: Without a radio, Park Sticker, signing in, fee, or a whistle ----Is there other BS that I'm forgetting?
Oh, and just out of the jurisdiction of the SDPD. (Bob, you'd like that part of towing.)
We could rig a portable battery powered PA (megaphone) so that Bob could preach to Torrey while soaring.

brianscharp wrote: That sounds rebellious. I'd go with a platform on the boat or launch off the beach. I think salt water plays hell on hang gliders.

Just have to find someone with a boat!