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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:07 pm

Different from the rollable boom mentioned in prior post are the slit-tube rollable booms. Recall coiled measuring tapes that has been mentioned before in our forum a US Hawks.

ROCCOR is pioneering the use of composite slit-tubes as rollable booms for stand-alone deployable booms or as an underlying structural element for a wide array of deployable structure systems.


tags: elastic slit-tube booms, rollable boom, rollable spar, coilable spar, roll-able trusses, rollable trusses, deployable booms,


==============================
Roll-out composite truss


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Triangular rollable and collapsible boom
US 7895795 B1 Thomas W. Murphey, Jeremy Banik
US7895795Fig1.JPG
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:17 pm

https://directory.eoportal.org/web/eoportal/satellite-missions/n/nanosail-d2
NanoSail-D2
==============================================
https://www.google.com/patents/US3298142
Reelable reversibly flexible and rigid structural members
==============================================
https://www.google.com/patents/US3300910
Reelable structural members
==============================================
https://www.google.com/patents/US3361377
Extendible-retractable boom
==============================================
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:21 pm

Notes I do not want to miss giving in case I forget or disappear:

Coming to me, probably obvious to those skilled in the attending arts, is a spark:
Rollable angle. Then set two angles arm back to arm back to stabilize each other. Consider sandwiching web by two pairs of such that is also rollable. Consider setting such interior of inflated Trinity One Spar.
Also, consider four angles giving cross for setting in interior of inflated spar; then use four bladders.


The rollable angle is flat and rollable. But its form in flat is with a notch of about 90 degrees while retaining material for hinging; deploy to manual or elastic angle.
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:52 pm

CasedShelling001.png
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Shelling from using furled flats unfurled and case while stressing by use of inflated bladder
Consider using two furled flats curled within case; have positively inflated bladder to press the curled sheet under case constraint.

Example: have a spar case of fabric that constrains spar diameter(D) to be 12 in. C=piD has (3.14)(12 in)= 37.7 in approx. So, our shelling would need to be at least 37.7 in; but because one will not want a sharp ending of shelling inside the case, going for overlap prevents such. So, say go for 60 in in the flat that will curl to be inside the fabric case; the overlap of shelling will then be about (60-38)= 22 in approx. The overlap perhaps strong shelling effects for the resulting spar. The 60 in would be the furling length. Say the spar is 33 ft long; say, have 60 in wide sheet that is 33 ft long. Furl the 5-ft wide by 33 ft sheet using the furling axis be the 5 ft.

Example at site: Unfurl the 5-ft roll of shelling sheet to be a flat of 5 ft x 33 ft. Have assisting belts. Begin to curl the big sheet using assistive belts; get the curled part to be just less than 12 in diameter. Dress the curled part with the fabric case by inverted peeling method; upon dressing the first part of the curled shelling, place another assistive belt on the outside of the case to pinch the shelling to be about 11 in in diameter; then dress the curled part more up to an assitive belt; place another exterior assistive belt; then such action just made allows releasing and removing the first assistive belt; then keep dressing the curled part in similar fashion. When the curled part is fully dressed, then there will be no interior assistive belting and only exterior assistive belting; then remove the exterior assistive belting and let the interior curled shelling expand to stress the enclosing fabric case to the 12 in diameter. Then insert an inflatable bladder inside the interior of the spar. Care for ending the spar is not presented here; assume the ends are resolved. Inflate the bladder; the bladder will press the shelling and stress the case; the case will constrain the diameter of the spar. Excessive pressure would burst the case; so, have case that will stay working under the stress that will occur; limit pressures in the bladder to match design wishes. Result: a spar that features shelling from the case and from the shelling sheet. The choice of sheet may vary according to needs. Here, there is a looking at sheets that may be handily furled at the 5 ft furling dimension.

What sheets are COTS (commercial off the shelf) that may solve some wishes? Reports of your experiments are invited. I will be reporting my experiments with various shelling sheets. I have not yet made but small models of this method. Suggestive approximate similarity cases: feet in socks, arms in sweater sleeves, packing posters into poster shipping tubes, bands around barrels, bands around stowed rolled carpets, bands around rolled maps, roll up a piece of notebook paper and place it inside of a long sock and then insert a latex toy balloon and blow up the balloon to stress the sock, ...

How does this shelling method compare to just using an inflated airtight bladder of sturdy formation, say light is used in making Frank Colver's packraft? Say, have a seamed bladder made from special fabric treated with special materials. The shelling method could use a case of netting or other COTS fabric; the case need not be watertight or airtight; the case can be very porous. And the shelling sheet need not be without holes; the shelling sheet could be with thousands of holes, so long as the bladder used does not get injured by pressing against the holes; smooth shelling material will let the bladder press against a smooth surface. But the shelling that overlaps itself does not need to be airtight; only the interior bladder needs to be airtight. So, the shelling method may use many different COTS materials; then have a bladder that works. Rafting and boat inflatables are facing water challenges, abrasion challenges, etc.; the boat have to keep water out and air in; differently, the hang glider or wing spar usually only has to face keeping air in the bladder; let abrasion be taken by the case and shelling. For the wing use, one usually is not concerning with letting water in, unless one aims to have a water-landing hang glider or wing.

Bladders: study power-kite bladders and also raft and boat bladders.

A robust essay about raft materials:
:arrow: :arrow: http://theboatpeople.org/miscellaneous/rafts-rubber-versus-pvc-the-great-debate/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packraft

=========================
Image
=====================================
=====================================
Hey, hey, why not just have coupled 5-ft length of aluminum 7075-T6 tubing and be done with it! :shock: No cases, no bladders, no compression elements, no "shelling" ! :!: :?: :?: :?:
Good question, :) ... Done with what? Various characteristics come with each chosen construction. We have the Falcon 3 and that could be 5-ft formatted with couplers, as BobK noted; then reaching for alternative way of applying the sail, and then presto: 5-ft pack would not be far away in such a mod. So, why reach into special spars for some other HG? Adventure of materials and design? Hope for DIY revolution? Durable wings? Lower-massed wing hopes? Universalizing availability of hang gliders? Once bladdering is mastered, I think some very low-cost large profile spars will be obtained; upon the spar as base, I am envisioning an easy way to explore many monoplane hang glider designs that will be busable and under 5-ft in pack. Canvas case, compression elements, bladder; add stand-offs to stress trailing edge cable; rig for reflex and control frame. Or shelling instead of compression elements? It will be fun to see what is built and flown for what kind of niche hang gliding activity.
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:09 pm

There seems to be in my August 11, 2018, efforts a joyous solution to spar making for the busable-HG movement.
=================================================================================================
I will be posting further on this matter soon as possible. I can feel the "build" coming on with the "joyous solution".
If there is novelty invention in the finding, then that would be sweet; but I have no intention of "protecting" such matter;
that is, anyone may run with the disclosure as they wish with or without attribution; but the matter will be disclosed
in the USHawks forum first. Once seen, most viewers will probably easily say: "Oh, that is simple to see and understand!"
And that is part of why "joyous" is used here; the core step does turn out to be simple to understand. In my notes I wrote the
word in all caps: "SOLVED!" :!: The long road of tossing aside iterations may have come to an end; it is time to build and test
and get the iterations going on the precise specifications of the solution (exact material and size to meet safety for purpose).

The first purpose will be to meet the safety needs for Dockweiler flying, not open high-sky thermal flying; the thermal specs
would be different. The first runs will not have automatic air-pressure adjustment system as would be needed when changes
of altitude and air temperature would be present. Rather, the first run will have manual air-pressure changes; as the day
heats up, let some air out; as the day cools then pump a bit of air back into the spar. Upon some slow leak between eight-second flights,
simply pump a whisper of air back into the spar. No problem. There are automatic air-pressure-keeping solutions for thermal flying,
but I will not be concerned for some while about having such. The Dockweiler Handy Dandy will be simple as can be to meet first targets.

I will describe the spar after the first spar test proves anticipations. :roll:
The already posted ideas in this topic thread have seeds toward the recent reached "solution" that will be soon built and tested;
but the final item is a bit different from anything noted so far in this topic thread.

Lift,
Joe
PS: Of course, if the August 11, 2018, "solution" turns out to be only a runner-up or a no-go, then I will still fully disclose the matter
for the sake of learning.
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:26 am

From the RGSA Forum:

RobinHastings wrote:Thanks, Nate. Where is that ridge? It sounds intriguing.

At present, Juan has his glider stored at my house, so that he can take a bus or a hitch a ride with his harness over to where the mountains are. He does not own a car.
-Robin


A guy who owns a hang glider and no car?

Sounds like he's got his priorities right!    :thumbup:
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:34 am

Nov29of2018WakingNoteWing5tote.jpg
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The sail is not drawn in the note.
The waking note mainly stemmed from a subconscious waking mare concerning possibly having the camber of rib parts flow from one's back over the top of the head; the thought upon waking was that maybe even a sombrero could be worn to top the cambered part. Sombrero: also not depicted.
=========================
The version in the waking note of today features "inflated-case-bladder" spars (left and right); such deflate to flat and packable items sketched as being made into a bag to back-pack sticks (rib parts, TCF parts, KP(s), spreader assembly parts, tip-sticks). Spreaders are noted as left assembly and right assembly; each assembly might be of two overlapping angle cross section sticks; the overlap of two parts gives extra anti-buckling mass and section at center of the compression spreader where buckling is most likely to occur; the angle choice permits nesting during tote; similar for the other side's spreader assembly. TCF and kingpost(s) may be angle sticks. Note depiction has sail-mains packed in two packs stacked in front of carrier's body. Maybe wear harness and hang front packs in balance with backpack. The splinted airbeam spar tech is served with a splinting compression member that might be coilable (say 16' long coiled to a radius that would fit the total tote system; aggregate coilable might be explored (say two or three smaller-diameter rods.

===================
Note: In-bus tote manner could well be different from trek off-bus manner. E.g. In-bus manner has special challenges; initial boarding has its challenges; that point is where bus driver PIC permits or rejects one-with-wing to board.
After getting off the bus, there may be a considerable trek with Wing-5vers.? During such trek a morphing of pack could occur that has wheels do the load carrying, e.g.

=========================
An hour after waking today: Maybe ribs could use splinted airbeam tech; use small diameter compression splints; such might result in not having to have anything above neck in tote.
Etc. Such notes are amount hundreds of notes during this designing stage.
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:21 pm

========================== Some considerations ==========
= Front packs
= Back packs
= Side packs
= Pant packs
= Hand-held packs
===========================
= Socks hung in balance
= Spar case with internal bladder
= Soft rigging. Knobs. Loops. Larks-head set.
= Sticks: ribs, keel, tips, TCF, KP(s)
= Coiled compression elements
= Air pump; pressure meter;
= Harness
= Helmet
= Safe-Splat
=
===========================
Wheeled format for trek from bus departure to launch area ...
Worn format for efficient entry to bus ...
===========================
What does bus driver "see" when approaching a bus stop where Wing-5 person is waiting? Design carefully what the driver sees.
Appear:
== neat,
== clean,
== stable,
== thin,
== peaceful,
...
===========================
Consider printing a small photo sequence showing tote pack, unpack, launch, flight, landing. Hand the item when any resistance or interest surfaces.
===========================
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:45 pm

The 5-ft-pack HG Movement
======================
Anyone is invited to be part of the exploratory 5-ft-pack HG Movement.
What can you conceive more silly and extravagant than to suppose a man racking his brains, and studying night and day how to fly?

— William Law, 'A Serious Call to a Devout and Holy Life XI,' 1728.
=====================================================
Place your ideas, sketches, experiment reports, tests, etc. in front of the world.
The Movement has been underway in other HG forums for some time now.
The Movement may have an exciting presence in this forum also.
Examine all the technologies and possibilities; bring the best forward for examination.
=====================================================

Starting:
1. Bring forward all the various options from the hybrid inflatable worlds.
2. Examine splinted bladdered encased spars.
3. Explore foldable pre-stressed shells set in pack in accordion means.
4. Combine technologies where needed.
5. Explore deployable spars.
6. Examine soft-cabling options.
7. Explore all the other hang gliding forums for sharings on the Movement.
8. Respect niche HG activity; that is, one size need not fit all. Specialize designs to meet the niche activity.
9. Be ready to alter the Movement to "5-ft-pack-or-shorter HG Movement".
10. Get architects and engineers interested in the Movement. And artists.
11. Consider Safe-Splat and also High-Hat enhancements all in the same pack.
12. Trust that ways will be found and developed that will bring forward very low-volume low-mass convenient quickly-assembled and quickly packed HGs. The adventure during fulfilling such trust may be choice and wondrous. Be a part of this Movement.

..... There are many more seed starting points; bring those in. Then All are invited to forward the matter to many optional completions.

==============================================

Wed Jun 10, 2015 wrote: This topic is dedicated to the "The 5 ft-pack-HG Movement"
Move it forward! Some top designs are anticipated one day!. Ease of assembly and packing is invited. Safety is paramount.
Designs need not be fit for "all possible uses", but may be with limited activity. Consider "Dandy Handy Dockweiler" sledders in conservative airs. Yet consider more strenuous tasking also. Aim for bus-ability. Consider wearing toted sail. Consider having all tote parts play a part in the designs. Explore sail wrap after frame up; sail off first and then frame packing. Explore telescopic spars, tapered spars, angle cross-section. Consider fiberglass, carbon-fiber, titanium. Consider non-metal cables. Consider space frames. Consider whatever might bring to hang gliding a busable 5-ft long pack. Stay with airframes for coupling with pilot forces. Consider putting aside cars and trucks. Consider wheels or skid for drag or wheeled tote. Consider ribs that snap two parts on either side of the sail for no-pockets. Consider bags for the wing-wrap. Etc.


=========================
Bringing in Hoosier_eagle's post in a different topic:
Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:23 am
I just don't think we can overstate, just how detrimental the lack of a true, quick short pack intermediate glider in the US is to the growth in the number of hang glider pilots. Even if it is too heavy to hike with, the requirement for long break down times on the only available model (Falcon 4), exclude it as a real option for regular weekly or daily short packing. Technological developments have made paragliding more accessible and safe for pilots, but lack of technological innovation has left hang gliding in the dust (yes, grounded).

On a personal note, despite my deep love of the sport, this factor alone has almost driven me completely out of it. My car with rack can no longer be relied upon for road trips. And, I cannot afford a new or used car right now. So here, me, my rack, my glider, and jalopy sit in Louisville, KY. Because of it, I have not been able to fly for months. I am heartbroken. If I had a paraglider, I could rent a small car, stuff the wing in the back, and go. I could take it as my second bag on a commercial flight. When you are talking about young folks with limited resources, lack of portability and packability is a HUGE, HUGE issue. I am lucky, I have a house. All the college and inner city kids that I introduce to the sport live in apartments. There is absolutely no way they have space to store a 16 - 18 ft (5 - 6 m) long hang glider. Heck most of their rooms are only 9 - 12 feet wide, and located up switchback staircases on upper floors. And they are certainly not bringing this huge long glider to their parents, just so they can hear them berate them for doing such activities. A paraglider nicely hides in the closet or the trunk of the car when mom stops by.

In short, lack of a quick 2m pack option is effectively killing this sport, and many seasoned pilots understandably have trouble seeing it as the HUGE problem that it is, because they have all their stuff already built, own homes, own vehicles, etc. Really, until this problem is addressed head on, then absolutely, positively, everything else we do is to increase the number of young HG pilots is for pretty much for naught. You see, I teach college and can affirmatively tell you that nothing you would SAY about paragliding would deter my college students from taking up paragliding over hang gliding, because hang gliding is quite simply just not a practical option for them. Period. Can't pack it, can't store it, can't hide it from mom and dad, can't transport it. I play videos at my college every single year, hoping some will take up the sport. Initially they are all very interested. Sadly, once they do a little research and realize how hard it is to carry the thing, they bolt to paragliding.

Solution? Well, maybe, instead of crowd sourcing for more promotional videos to try to get more folks in the sport, we could crowd source to fund some innovation and design grants, to be issued to individuals for the development of truly portable gliders. Let's get this monkey off our backs and move on to packing these babies INSIDE our vehicles, or on NORMAL size luggage racks. Then, we might actually get enough young beginner and intermediate pilots to support the future of this sport.

Oh, and by the way, about my height and those big ass control frames...

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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:01 pm

For some study:
https://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2008/06/weekend-wings-20-inflatable-aircraft.html

=============================================
Cool Breeze offered:
Why not telescoping leading edge and keel? Seems like you don't need the same diameter leading edge towards the tips.

==============================================
In 2015, I noted:
Hi Fred ! Yes Fex' 6-ft-"short" pack has been an option. The early Burgfex at 24 lb invites attention. The current 7075-T6 has been important. Thorough study of Fex users forms a strand of "short pack" text that will inform the "5-ft-or-less HG pack Movement.

What will 5-ft-or-less give in the coming future that the 6-ft-or-greater missed?
What system weights will be coming in for solutions in the 5-ft-or-less Movement?
What variety of HG designs will appear? Materials? Structural methods? Ease of assembly? Niche uses? Opportunities for tote and travel and hike? Total volume of the packs? Durability? Solutions for niche activity? Fex is attractive for some purposes. But what will the designs be that win robustly the convenience competition? Competition with Fex and other "short" packed HGs will arrive from shorter, lighter, and operationally quicker solutions.

In the coming solution set there will be some HGs that will hardly be noticed when carried by the pilot on a public city bus. A bulbous 6-ft pack has still a considerable intimidation presence on a public city passenger bus; lowering the intimidation quotient may be part of the Movement. Some solutions will be coming in less than the 20 lb point; others will be heavier but still low in volume.

Packing strategies arriving from nested angles, nested zees, and soft cabling will be present in some niche-HG-activity solutions. Pilot-worn sail or wing parts will be part of some solutions.

The Fex text is definitely kin to the present topic. But the Fex "short" is still too long for the present topic.

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Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:36 pm
Splinted airbeams? One company is coining the ancient technology while giving high focus on such. "Tensairity" The registered trademark is distinct from the ancient method of splinting cores.

Image

Such will play in some solutions in the Movement.
Tensairty will compete with other air-bean technologies.

The realm of non-porous bladders encased in porous encasements compete with non-porous air beams. The two part system allows the bladder to be oversized and remaining relaxed while under significant air pressure; the dedicated encasements control form and does the tensional work. The play of tensairity and the bladder-encasement form a hybrid direction that has yet to be fully explored for HG purposes.

============================
It is entirely impossible for man to rise into the air and float there. For this you would need wings of tremendous dimensions and they would have to be moved at three feet per second. Only a fool would expect such a thing to be realized.

— Joseph de Lalande, member of the French Academy, 'Journal de Paris,' 18 May 1782

======================================================
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