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Re: USHPA's Insurance Fiasco

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:16 am

Rick Masters on March 8th 2017 wrote:Freeflight is not about creating a dues monopoly for privileged groups - and the purpose of government is not about protecting monopolies.

The Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors appears to agree with you Rick.

Your post was made weeks before my first appearance before the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors. You called it just right.

:salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute:
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Re: USHPA's Insurance Fiasco

Postby SamKellner » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:17 pm

Hawks,

Some of you might be keeping up with the continuing Fiasco. I'm still able to view Ozforum, but don't think these new demands will effect me much. It seems biased toward HG.

The Oz Report: Post USHPA Accident/Incident Reports


u$hPa, MGF, is now asking for accident reports in triplicate, including anything that deviates from your flight plan. LOL Talk about additional needed office staff.

Please back file all incidents that have happened in the last three months. There are now three forms you need to fill out. if it deviated from a normal flight plan and could have resulted in an accident, it was an incident.
You need to do the first two steps and you can skip the third step unless there was property damage to somebody else.


Rick, are you sending in your collection of deadly incidents? :P

It does not have to be your incident, so please report the ones you see.


Landing where the pilot came up short and went into the swamp? Incident. HG pilot "whacks" on landing and broke a tube? Incident.


Something else MF said:

- Those actuaries know very little about hang gliding or paragliding. Our insurance premiums are built "bottom up", by third-party actuaries who analyze the
available information and assign an estimate of the financial risk.


Maybe these third party actuaries DO already know more about the risks u$hPa is insuring and that's why the coverage was dropped which forced the RRRG.
Maybe they know some of the aerial vehicles 8-) , those without airframes, can collapse at any moment.
PG pilot got blown back and tossed reserve? Incident!


This above quote is what makes me feel the bias. Nowhere that I see does the "Accident/Incident Report" request ask for incidents that might involve
flying along and your canopy collapse and the emergency chute must be thrown. :thumbdown:

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Re: USHPA's Insurance Fiasco

Postby SamKellner » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:50 pm

What MGF wrote:
A prime element in the loss reserves


How I first read this:
A prime element is the toss reserves
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Re: USHPA's Insurance Fiasco

Postby Rick Masters » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:15 pm

Maybe these third party actuaries DO already know more about the risks

Insurance is broadly international now. You can bet global insurers know full well about the risks both paragliding and hang gliding present in Europe.
Many of those fliers are insured by social medical coverage and the rates have been lower, but now re-insurers are cutting coverage for high risk sports.
Hang gliding is in the same bucket as much riskier and costlier paragliding, thanks to the national orgs wrapping them together as "freeflight."
3PL is increasingly coming under threat by revised S&R reimbursement policies in many regions, due to so many paragliding rescues.
If Obamacare goes down the toilet, USHPA may go with it.
Rick, are you sending in your collection of deadly incidents? :P

No. Mark Forbes told me and Rodger Hoyt to shut up. He seemed to think talking about accidents and incidents made it worse.
I don't feel, at this point, that it is possible for me to help those guys.
We have philosophical differences. :twisted:
Besides, they are still digging.
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The USHPA's ~ A Public Extortion Racket

Postby eagle » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:53 pm

YOU MEAN WE GOTTA PAY the USHPA
FOR INSURANCE NOT REQUIRED FOR NORMAL RECREATIONAL FLIGHT
....... and A CITY GANG (CEO-ZAR)


~ PAY FOR A NORMALY FREE ACCESS THE PUBLIC PARK
PAY TO ACCESS FREE AIRSPACE ~


Pay the City Mafia.jpg
Pay the City Mafia.jpg (29.11 KiB) Viewed 400 times

OUR NORMAL VOLUNTARY CLUB FEE
IS NOW MANDATORY SITE FEE'S
YOUR SITE FEE
IS NOW A MANDATORY ACCESS PASS


Pay the City Mafia to use our Public Park
cHE cHING pIGS
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Re: USHPA's Insurance Fiasco

Postby Rick Masters » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:25 pm

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Re: USHPA's Insurance Fiasco

Postby SamKellner » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:37 pm

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Re: USHPA's Insurance Fiasco

Postby Rick Masters » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:07 am

Incredible. I was shocked by the creative accounting.
They should have an award for Putting A :P Happy Face On A Debacle and give it to the author of that BOD report.
What a terrible mistake it was to invite paragliding into the USHGA!
The Wills Wing charts at the end make clear the damage done.
Hang glider pilots on the fence had better form a national hang gliding association fast!
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Re: USHPA's Insurance Fiasco

Postby SamKellner » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:33 am

What Rick said !

:( :( :( :(

That's what I got out of it also.

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Re: USHPA's Insurance Fiasco

Postby Rick Masters » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:03 pm

                                    The Suicide Of The United States Hang Gliding Association

Image
The USHGA BOD voted to merge the USHGA with the American Paragliding Association in 1992.

A paraglider - any paraglider - is an aircraft of extremely limited capability with regard to wind and turbulence. As a lightly loaded, relatively high aspect ratio ram air inflated wing, a paraglider is highly subject to spontaneous distortion or partial collapse induced by turbulence, which will result in some degree of both increased descent rate and loss of control. Should this occur close to the ground, an impact at a speed high enough to cause injury or death is not unlikely.
        When paragliding exploded in popularity in the early 90’s, many hang glider pilots warned of the dangers of flying paragliders in strong winds and mid day thermals. A segment of the paragliding community responded by taking this as, effectively, a challenge to their manhood, and their response has been to do everything they can to "prove the old farts wrong." So now we have a new medical condition called "the paraglider limp," and we’ve had to say goodbye to some very close friends who managed to survive hang gliding at the highest levels for 25 years but were killed by untimely collapses in paragliders.

-- Meier, Mike, “Warning - unsafe flying conditions ahead,” Paragliding Magazine, Aug 1999
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