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Re: Triangle Control Frame or A-Frame

Postby JoeF » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:32 am

Three tubes
Three pilots
TCF
Cable-stayed triangle control frame
See video post by Rick Masters recently:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=2849&p=21651
Still clips from video:
tcfTriohalfdome1977.JPG
tcfTriohalfdome1977.JPG (33.6 KiB) Viewed 942 times

tcfTriohalfdome1977b.JPG
tcfTriohalfdome1977b.JPG (30.24 KiB) Viewed 942 times

tcfTriohalfdome1977c.JPG
tcfTriohalfdome1977c.JPG (35.2 KiB) Viewed 942 times

tcfTriohalfdome1977e.JPG
tcfTriohalfdome1977e.JPG (26.08 KiB) Viewed 942 times

tcfTriohalfdome1977d.JPG
tcfTriohalfdome1977d.JPG (39.47 KiB) Viewed 942 times
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Re: Triangle Control Frame or A-Frame

Postby JoeF » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:22 pm

This find by ARP might be a missing piece:
Ryan XV-8 Fleep Crash July 7, 1962 NASA; Rogallo Wing "Fying Jeep" Aircraft N140N


thanks, Tony !
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Re: Triangle Control Frame or A-Frame

Postby JoeF » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:03 am

Very early:

EarlyTCFLesCerfsVolants.JPG
EarlyTCFLesCerfsVolants.JPG (27.34 KiB) Viewed 790 times

EarlyTCFLesCerfsVolants2.JPG
EarlyTCFLesCerfsVolants2.JPG (35.48 KiB) Viewed 790 times
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Re: Triangle Control Frame or A-Frame

Postby Rick Masters » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:20 am

Image
:shock:
Tampa Bay Times, (St. Petersburg, Florida)
15 Jan 1974
Rick Masters: Dangerous Thoughts        View my rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System
A lot of foolish people think they're hang gliding with parachutes - but nobody ever thinks they're parachuting with hang gliders.
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Re: Triangle Control Frame or A-Frame

Postby JoeF » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:34 pm

Thanks to ARP (Tony Prentice) :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute:
for a neat historical video link:

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Re: Triangle Control Frame or A-Frame

Postby JoeF » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:11 pm

TWOofTCFtandem.JPG
TWOofTCFtandem.JPG (77.76 KiB) Viewed 70 times


The Boys' Book of Model Aeroplanes: How to Build and Fly Them: with the Story of the Evolution of the Flying Machine
Francis Arnold CollinsJanuary 1, 1910
Century Company

Free ebook
See button on left for free copy of the book in ebook format. 310 pages
TCF was well known in first decade of 1900s, even at official sport hang gliding meet

Circa1910TCFboysbookmodels.JPG
Circa1910TCFboysbookmodels.JPG (77.43 KiB) Viewed 64 times
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Re: Triangle Control Frame or A-Frame

Postby JoeF » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:32 pm

Circa1910TCFstrutedBoysBook.JPG
Circa1910TCFstrutedBoysBook.JPG (70.61 KiB) Viewed 62 times

from same 1910 book
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Re: Triangle Control Frame or A-Frame

Postby Frank Colver » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:15 am

I wouldn't call that last one a control frame. It's just a typical landing gear structure common on most model airplanes. No actual control of the aircraft's motion through the air takes place there.

With all due respect, Joe, calling it a control frame is stretching the point a bit.

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Re: Triangle Control Frame or A-Frame

Postby JoeF » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:43 am

Yes, fun.
But meaningful.
The landing gear-holding triangle controls a few things:
1. Controls the position of the landing wheels.

2. Controls in part resultant CG of the flight system, by design. And altering design masses and profiles of that triangle and its appended parts will control the resultant flight characteristics of the flight system.

3. By some pendulum action the shown triangle and its wheels controls in part resultant flight.
Such triangles and the understanding of their aerodynamic importance form roots of aerodynamic concerns.
Indeed in that same decade, we have posted photo evidence of a battened semi-flexible high aspect ratio sport-meet used hang glider that has such triangle, but cable braced and kingposted. The triangle control frame of the hang glider of that meet is situated for Whack landing gear; the Boy's book of models would suggest to big boys that wheels might help regarding some Whacks.

Indeed, the shown model does not indicate dynamic or variable-action controlling of flight. But the points above lets the fun considerations flow. Such is relevant especially since variable-push-and-pull use of such triangle in sport hang glider at official hang gliding meet in circa 1910 occurred. From the model world, it might be easy to imagine the young boys knowing about C.G. and the open opportunity of hanging a pilot below the keel to push and pull on that landing gear to effect weight-shift controls, especially since they may have been aware of Otto Lilienthal as evident in same book that indeed did feature Otto Lilienthal.

Not stretching too far. But fun and part of the research. TCF (even if the variable-push-pull dynamic is vicariously an opportunity).

Thanks for the post, Frank. It feels like you are energized from your recent adventures, maybe still ongoing. :thumbup:
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Re: Triangle Control Frame or A-Frame

Postby ARP » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:05 am

On a delta type weight shift hang glider the primary purpose of the triangular frame is structural rather than control. The secondary purpose is a means of control for the pilot. On some rigid hang gliders where the wing is a cantilevered structure the TCF does have a primary use for roll control but still provides a structural support for pitch control.

When used as a structural member the A frame could be modified to a single strut as it is simply a queen strut which could still be used for control by fitting a T bar as Barry Hill Palmer did with one of his hang gliders and ultralight.

The combined use of the A frame for structural and control purposes can be seen throughout the history of aviation. The water ski kites utilise a wire braced double queen post with a connecting control bar. This same arrangement was first used by Dickenson on his Rogallo winged version which he later modified to a triangle frame by moving the tops of the queen posts to meet at the same point on the keel. It served the same purpose and made the structure easier to handle.

The queen posts can also be used for the undercarriage supports for adding wheels to. Pilcher did this and the idea continued into modern times.

There are few ideas in aviation that have not been tried before and so invention of anything new would be difficult. To create a glider using those existing ideas in novel ways is possible and that is the interest I have. It is not invention but it is a design process that drives the development of flying machines.
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