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USHPA Revokes Tandem Exemption from Air California Adventure

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:18 pm

I've gotten this from a number of sources so far ...

Torrey_Tandem_Revocatoin.png
Torrey_Tandem_Revocatoin.png (95.84 KiB) Viewed 1165 times


Of course, what many people don't know is that there are other organizations that can provide FAA tandem exemptions.    :shock:

Moderator's Note: Several posts in this topic have asserted that Max Marien's tandem rating was revoked by USHPA. However, USHPA officers have denied that ever happened and have instead stated that it was "internally suspended at Torrey for a while". This raises the additional question of why his rating wasn't officially revoked by USHPA instead of allowing it to be "internally suspended at Torrey for a while". For clarity, and to make the record as clear as possible, the word "effectively" has been used to indicate that while the rating was not officially pulled, it was "effectively" pulled. Whether pulled officially or pulled "internally", the effect was the same that Robin Marien's son Max was unable to conduct tandem flights for money at Torrey Pines under USHPA's tandem exemption.
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Re: USHPA Revokes Tandem Exemption from Air California Adven

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:30 pm

By the way, it's somewhat comical to watch all the misinformation being posted on hanggliding.org:

_css_nate_ wrote:This is the key clause:

Quote:
Under FAA Exemption 4721, all participants in two-place flight must have a pilot rating issued by USHPA.

So, the FAA recognizes USHPA in an official manner here and it appears not legal per federal regulation to fly a hang glider tandem without proper USHPA certification. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.


You're mistaken Nate. The FAA has issued tandem exemptions to organizations other than USHPA.

designbydave wrote:
_css_nate_ wrote:...it appears not legal per federal regulation to fly a hang glider tandem without proper USHPA certification. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.


This is my understanding of the Tandem Exemption, yes.


You're wrong too Dave. You haven't done your homework.

JackieB wrote:Nate and Dave are correct. The FAA granted the exemption to the USHGA (originally) and it has authority to offer or rescind that to members. No tandem operation is allowed without USHPA permission.

https://www.ushpa.org/page/faa-exemption-4721

Also, USHPA has to have the exemption extended every two years. Any concerns about compliance could jeopardize extension.


No. Nate and Dave are not correct, and neither are you.

BubbleBoy wrote:
gotandem wrote:They chose to continue without USHPA. I think that makes perfect sense for them.

Well currently it makes no sense since they can't tandem.

I have no idea if they can get their own exemption (I seriously doubt it).

JB


It turns out that the FAA has issued tandem exemptions to a number of other organizations. USHPA has been keeping it a secret, but some members of the Hawks have been exploring those other options for many months now.
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Re: USHPA Revokes Tandem Exemption from Air California Adven

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:43 pm

I've been swamped with phone calls this evening. During my last conversation, a bunch of new posts were put up on hanggliding.org:

red wrote:
sg wrote:Just got the email. WHOA. Can they still fly tandems in any way at all?
They have their own insurance. What are all the implications here?


Campers,

Insurance is no part of the issue. Without the USHPA exemption, tandem ultralight flight (anywhere in the USA) is illegal at the federal level. Part 103 only allows the operation of single occupant ultralights. Outside of Part 103, there are numerous requirements for aircraft certifications, inspections, registration, and FAA pilot licensing. TP would have to pursue their own FAA exemption, pertaining to Part 103.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SI ... 4.2.103_11
Source: Docket No. 21631, 47 FR 38776, Sept. 2, 1982, unless otherwise noted.

Subpart A—General

§103.1 Applicability.
This part prescribes rules governing the operation of ultralight vehicles in the United States. For the purposes of this part, an ultralight vehicle is a vehicle that:

(a) Is used or intended to be used for manned operation in the air by a single occupant;


Red is a good man, but he may not have known that there were other sources of FAA tandem exemptions when he wrote this. So his statement that "Without the USHPA exemption, tandem ultralight flight (anywhere in the USA) is illegal at the federal level" is mistaken.

The "brilliant" Davis Straub wrote this:

davisstraub wrote:I'm going to predict that Torrey Pines (ACA) will not be able to have their own tandem exemption outside the USHPA, so that tandem instruction will not take place there until the USHPA is ready to let it happen there.

What would Bob say?


Careful Davis. Aside from making an already provably wrong prediction, your mention of the "B" word can get you banned from hanggliding.org.    :roll:

But if "Bob" could post on hanggliding.org, "Bob" would inform everyone of this web site:

http://aerosports.org/:

aerosports_org.png
aerosports_org.png (228.42 KiB) Viewed 1125 times

Click the button, enter your Visa card, tandem to go.

But not even Mark Forbes wants to "let the cat out of the bag" to share the Aero Sports Connection secret. Here's the half truth that Mark Forbes passes on as gospel:

Mark Forbes on Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:25 pm wrote:If you're working for ACA (Torrey) in any capacity, you're not authorized to fly under our tandem exemption. If you're a T1, then you'd only be flying recreationally with other rated pilots, and you would not be taking compensation for the flight or operating as an instructor, so therefore would not be working for ACA. You might be flying at the site, but so long as you're not employed or contracting for them, that's fine.

As mentioned earlier, we have to request that FAA renews our tandem exemption every two years. In that renewal letter, we must discuss significant accidents, injuries, fatalities and other factors that relate to our tandem operations. The justification for issuing the exemption in the first place is that it promotes flight safety by giving students a way to train alongside an instructor, as is done typically in other sectors of aviation. That's why tandem instructional flights must have some at-least-basic elements of flight instruction, and are not simply joyrides.

A school openly defying the rules and the requirements of the exemption is one such factor that must be disclosed, along with USHPA's response to that behavior. The same goes for other significant incidents; we have revoked some instructor appointments, and in two cases the tandem instructors were fatally injured. One of those accidents killed the student too, and in the other case the student safely landed the glider after the instructor slipped out of the harness due to failure to hook in leg straps.

MGF


He's right about USHPA's exemption, but he kind of left out the important part about alternative tandem exemptions. Who wants to bet that Mark Forbes doesn't already know about Aero Sports Connection, but is conveniently leaving that out? Any takers?

In fact, there's a lot that Mark Forbes seems to be leaving out. For example, Mark Forbes isn't saying that I (Bob Kuczewski) had been reporting serious safety and training violations at Torrey Pines for the better part of the last decade. USHPA did nothing. They remained buddy-buddy with Air California Adventure for all of that time.

My guess is this "rift" resulted from USHPA effectively pulling Max Marien's tandem ticket (see footnote below) due to the joy riding episode recorded in the Shannon Hamby incident video. USHPA had no choice but to pull Max's rating, but Max Marien is Robin Marien's son. So Robin goes to Aero Sports Connection for their tandem exemptions and tells USHPA to get lost. All of a sudden USHPA's nose is out of joint, so they send this smear letter out to the national organization.

The wheels are falling off at USHPA ... and at Torrey.

Lay down with dogs, get up with fleas.

Footnote: Mark Forbes has written: "I have heard that he was internally suspended at Torrey for a while. I have no details of that action."
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Re: USHPA Revokes Tandem Exemption from Air California Adven

Postby Bill Cummings » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:28 pm

Would somebody please help me? I can't get this smirk off of my face!
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Re: USHPA Revokes Tandem Exemption from Air California Adven

Postby wingspan33 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:25 pm

Bob,

This is a very interesting development.

As to activity over on that other web site, perhaps all links to topics over there should be placed under the title of "ignorantville.org". Or, maybe "gullibleville.org".
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Re: USHPA Revokes Tandem Exemption from Air California Adven

Postby dhmartens » Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:29 pm

There is always a price to pay.
A less than cordial "discussion" with my regional director a month ago that explored various outcomes to both hypothetical and specific strategies may have led to my loss of even being able to read any content on shga forum. Content of the discussion could have influenced the Revocation.
Or it could be from some intellectual property I posted about a proposed hang gliding movie that links the Divinci Code to the Pavillion Storage to the Planet of the Apes.
Image
Anyway they banned me from the shga forum.
loserville is now winnerville.
Wait, now that paragliding is safer, it could take off even more as more people are confident it is being policed effectively.
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Re: USHPA Revokes Tandem Exemption from Air California Adven

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:02 pm

Hi Doug,

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=21650
Bob Kuczewski wrote:Excuse me, but I saw a post on the US Hawks by dhmartens that he's been banned from the SHGA forum.

Is that true? Can anyone share the circumstances?

Thanks.


I don't know if there will be an answer or not. I'll surely let you know.

For the record, I have to give the SHGA (Sylmar Hang Gliding Association) top marks for free speech on their forum. Even when Jonathan Dietch threatened to sue them to suppress a post, I still felt they stood up for free speech. I will be disappointed if they've started banning people for political views.

Bob
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Re: USHPA Revokes Tandem Exemption from Air California Adven

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:10 pm

Bill Cummings wrote:Would somebody please help me? I can't get this smirk off of my face!


:srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl:

For those who don't have my phone tapped, I laughed so hard at Bill's post that I had to call him earlier this evening to let him know.

wingspan33 wrote:Bob,

This is a very interesting development.

As to activity over on that other web site, perhaps all links to topics over there should be placed under the title of "ignorantville.org". Or, maybe "gullibleville.org".


Both appropriate choices.    :srofl:
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Re: USHPA Revokes Tandem Exemption from Air California Adven

Postby Rick Masters » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:12 am

I was surprised to see USHPA belatedly follow through with its rather obvious obligations under the FARs.
No joyriding would be a big financial hit for the Torrey concessionaire.
Looks like they just delivered a big FU to the USHPA.
No wonder the Torrey concessionaire had to go to GoFundMe to raise money for his extremely dangerous joyriding exhibition off Kilimanjaro.
http://www.wingsofkilimanjaro.com/donate/wok-team-2016/
Sounds like the Clinton Foundation of paragliding.     :o
I'll hardly be surprised if we see another GoFundMe page for medical evac back to the USA soon.
http://www.theadventuremedic.com/adventures/wings-kilimanjaro/
All these paragliding profiteers and FAR scofflaws are creating a threatening environment for U.S. hang gliding and, I expect, may be giving a bad name to charity in Africa, as well.
I mean, if they have to beg for their plane tickets, what level of charity can they be expected to deliver?
I can't find any published numbers so I remain a cynic.

The next thing USHPA needs to do is reinstate BobK and give him a big apology along with a lifetime membership.     :P
Or they could spin off paragliding and wash their hands of it before it pulls them over the cliff.
I wonder which is more likely?

- Form a national hang gliding association that thinks parachutes are for emergencies -
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Re: USHPA Revokes Tandem Exemption from Air California Adven

Postby mike » Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:12 am

Congratulations! and thanks for the good fight. I always thought U* was in bed with with the so called big schools.
U* owes you an apology and reinstatement. I won't hold my breath though :lolno:
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