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Re: Two Dead at Torrey - Paragliding Collision (March 9, 201

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:23 pm

Michael Giles November 5th, 2013 ...



Some have been critical of my comment in this exchange about whether the site would be open the following day (on our Torrey Hawks Second Sunday):

JoeF wrote:Might the commercial concessionaire close because of the incident today? :?: :?: :?:

Bob wrote:Unlikely. They will practically step over the bodies to keep their tandem cash register ringing. I'll bet they're flying tomorrow.


They were flying the next day (and even that same day) as I predicted.

Michael's 2013 testimony puts that complaint to rest.
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Re: Two Dead at Torrey - Paragliding Collision (March 9, 201

Postby wingspan33 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:25 pm

Those were both great videos Ernie and Bob! Very powerful! And putting up Mike's older video about safety issues at Torrey Pines also helps make the point - as does Bryan's and many of Bob's past statements as made to the San Diego City council.

Good Job!
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Re: Two Dead at Torrey - Paragliding Collision (March 9, 201

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:59 am

wingspan33 wrote:Very powerful! And putting up Mike's older video about safety issues at Torrey Pines also helps make the point - as does Bryan's and many of Bob's past statements as made to the San Diego City council.

Thanks. We have almost 9 years of video on this site. It's just a matter of finding the best among them. Mike Giles and Bryan Yute are just the tip of the iceberg. If anyone finds any that are particularly appropriate, please post them to this topic.
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Re: Two Dead at Torrey - Paragliding Collision (March 9, 201

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:51 pm

From February 16th, 2010:



If only the City Council had listened to 9 years of requests for oversight.
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Re: Two Dead at Torrey - Paragliding Collision (March 9, 201

Postby JoeF » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:57 pm

Found a quote from Fr. James Heft, S.M.:
Fr. James Heft wrote:"Is it possible for a person to possess any virtue if he or she does not also
possess the virtue of courage? Think of any virtue and ask yourself if it can
really be a virtue if the person who has it lacks courage. If a person thinks
she is generous, but lacks courage, does not that mean that she will give only
when it does not hurt, when it does not cost her much personally?
If a person thinks he is compassionate, but expresses compassion only when such an
act would be well seen by others, does that person really possess the virtue
of compassion? If people pride themselves on their honesty but do not speak
out when it results in disapproval by influential persons and leads to a loss
of their livelihood, can they in fact be thought to have the virtue of honesty?"


I thought that paragraph fit a bit with the record of Bob Kuczewski.
I've noticed courage in his ways.
Source document
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Re: Two Dead at Torrey - Paragliding Collision (March 9, 201

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:31 pm

JoeF wrote:Source document

Excellent document Joe. The link between courage and justice is very strong:

Pieper ... reminds us that the four cardinal virtues are always listed traditionally in the same order: prudence, justice, fortitude, and temperance. In that sequence, fortitude, or courage, appears third. Prudence and justice precede it. Why? Because prudence helps a person know what it is good to do. Prudence has nothing to do with prudery or an inability to enter into the messy order of reality or to take risks. Thomas himself explains: “In overcoming danger, fortitude seeks not danger itself, but the realization of rational good” (Pieper, 1966, p. 122). Courage does not stand by itself; in fact, courage is secondary, and points to something that must precede it. Most of us would not naturally link prudence and courage. Prudent people, we might suppose, do not take risks. For Thomas, however, prudence is a quality of judgment that permits a person to discern what is good.
   :
... we need to consider the meaning of the second cardinal virtue, justice. Again, according to Thomas, it is the “function of justice to carry out the order of reason [that is, what prudence discerns] in all human affairs” (Pieper, 1966, p. 125). In other words, courage, to be authentic, requires a “just cause.” Augustine says that it is “not the injury, but the cause that makes martyrs” (Pieper, 1966, p. 125). Thomas says that a person “does not expose his [or her] life to mortal danger, except to maintain justice. Therefore, the praise of courage depends upon justice” (Pieper, 1966, p. 125). And finally, St. Ambrose writes, “courage without justice is a lever of evil” (Pieper, 1966, p. 125).
   :
In sum, it is clear that courage cannot stand alone; it needs to be informed by a sense of the good and compelled by a sense of justice. We have also seen that the opposite of courage, cowardice, can actually be understood as one of the capital—that is, root—sins, namely sloth.

It is my firm belief that we - members of the U.S. Hawks - are here primarily because we value justice and have the courage to stand up for it.

:salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute:
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Re: Two Dead at Torrey - Paragliding Collision (March 9, 201

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:38 am

Some of my slides shown to the San Diego City Council (2 slides / image) ...

2010 and 2011
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2011 and 2012
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2012 and 2013
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2014 and 2014
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2015 and 2015
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2016 and 2016
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2017 and 2018
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2018 and 2019
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2019
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From Torrey Concession web site:
https://www.flytorrey.com/faqs/is-hang-gliding-or-paragliding-safer/


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"Our safety record is impeccable and we average less than 1 accident per 10 years or 100,000 flights."


"Less than 1 accident per 10 years" ???

Liars!   You can count 16 separate accidents right on this page in less than 10 years. Many involved multiple people and gliders. And those are just the accidents that happened to be published by the press. I personally know of others that were never reported.   Liars.
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Re: Two Dead at Torrey - Paragliding Collision (March 9, 201

Postby majiemae » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:59 pm

Bob K. letting the San Diego City Council know what he's been trying to tell them for over 10 years!



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Re: Two Dead at Torrey - Paragliding Collision (March 9, 201

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:18 am

JoeF wrote:Glenn Johnny Peter Bengtsson, Carlsbad (43)
Raul Gonzalez Valerio, Laguna Hills (61)

Key quote from concessionaire:
HERE
------
Someone fed the media with "The fatality rate in paragliding is one in 100,000" How accurate is that figure? 1800 fatalities times 100,000 =180,000,000 pilots ?????? Has there been 180,000,000 paraglider pilots? No. :arrow: So, the fed statistic is wrong. The media was talking to the concessionaire.

That false statistic (lie) is from the concession's own web site (see my post above). The media are too lazy to search their own files or they'd find all the examples cited in my previous post. And that list doesn't include all the accidents that are either unreported or don't get news coverage.

Here's the story from Joe's link:

https://www.10news.com/news/local-news/victims-in-deadly-paragliding-accident-at-torrey-pines-gliderport-identified
Victims in deadly paragliding accident at Torrey Pines Gliderport identified

Posted: 5:36 PM, Mar 10, 2019
Updated: 6:00 AM, Mar 11, 2019


By: Rina Nakano

LA JOLLA, Calif. (KGTV) - The San Diego County Medical Examiner's Office released the identities of the two men killed in a paragliding accident over the weekend.

The ME identified the victims as 43-year-old Glenn Johnny Peter Bengtsson, of Carlsbad, and Raul Gonzalez Valerio, 61, of Laguna Hills.

Questions still remain regarding the double fatal collision at Torrey Pines Gliderport on Saturday afternoon. The two certified pilots were flying their paragliders when they collided into each other, fell into a cliff, and died, authorities said.

RELATED: 2 paragliders dead after colliding in mid-air, crashing into cliff

Many who were at the Gliderport said Saturday's weather conditions were absolutely perfect, so they do not believe the incident was weather-related. While many people were flying, they said there were not enough people in the air at the time, so there wasn’t any aerial traffic jam.

Both men were certified pilots, one with an advanced certification. They both were aware of the rules -- to keep a safe distance between each other, and that the glider along the ocean needs to make way for the one flying along the cliffs, who has the right-of-way.

So what exactly happened? Many 10News spoke to said it must have been a freak accident.

Now, the Torrey Pines Gliderport staff, San Diego police, San Diego Fire-Rescue Department, and the Medical Examiner's Office are working to find answers.

Gabriel Jebb with the Torrey Pines Gliderport issued 10News this statement:

We share our sorrow at the loss of two members of our close-knit soaring community. While each individual who engages in gliding of any kind understands the risks inherent in our sport, and though the Torrey Pines Gliderport is amongst the world’s safest soaring sites, it is with heavy hearts that we mourn yesterday’s loss. Currently, our investigative team (which combined has over a 100 years of experience in gliding sports), as well as our local authorities (including the San Diego Police, San Diego Fire Departments, and the Medical Examiner’s Office) are reviewing the available data in order to assess what went wrong and why. Once those investigations are complete, we will share our combined conclusions. Until then, we are unable to further comment on these on-going investigations. In the interim, we ask that all celebrate the lives of the two individuals lost in yesterday’s tragic accident and that you keep them, and their families, in your thoughts and prayers.


The fatality rate in paragliding is one in 100,000. This is the same statistic as automobile fatalities in the US. But because there are much fewer paragliders, this may seem much rarer.

Torrey Pines Gilderport staff may host a memorial fly-in for the two men. But they have not yet decided on a date.

There's a lot of misinformation in that story, but they got the headline right:

Victims in deadly paragliding accident at Torrey Pines Gliderport identified

"Victims" is indeed plural in this incident.
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Re: Two Dead at Torrey - Paragliding Collision (March 9, 201

Postby SamKellner » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:09 pm

I bet Rick M. has this on his list of PG deaths :(
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