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Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:35 pm

Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding

On June 22 2019, Swift started a topic titled "Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding" on the Oz Forum:

Swift wrote:Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding

Let's start a conversation. I have an idea that can positively result in the growth of new pilots.
People can start lining up with their own arguments and I'll hold mine off for a while. 
Do you see hang gliding dying a slow death, or not? 
Steve Pierson's recent concerns as the premier hg manufacturer in the US tells me the premise is true. What can we do about it?


Swift is one of the more knowledgeable and perceptive pilots in the sport of hang gliding, and I look forward to reading his plan.

Until then, I'd like to offer my own thoughts on saving hang gliding:

1. Hang gliding needs an association dedicated to hang gliding. That association needs to sink or swim on hang gliding alone - not on a combination of hang gliding and any other sport (paragliding, wing suiting, base jumping, ...).

2. The hang gliding community cannot continue to allow their communication channels to be controlled by Jack and Davis. There have been far too many good pilots with good ideas that have been silenced by those two clowns. And who do they silence? Some of the most talented and energetic people in the sport: Joe Faust, Rick Masters, Scott Wise, Ben Reese, Bob Kuczewski, Tommy Thompson, Warren Narron, Brian Horgan, Al Hernandez, and many others. These are the George Washingtons and the Thomas Jeffersons and the Patrick Henrys of the sport. Furthermore, the banning of these good men has also had a chilling effect on what others can say or not say (Frank Colver, Tom "Red" Howard, and many many others).

3. Hang gliding must start using the Recreational Use Statutes in every state. These statutes were created to explicitly protect land owners and encourage them to allow sports like hang gliding. In fact, the sport of hang gliding is explicitly named in many of those laws. The insurance trap fed by USHPA is unsustainable. No other sport carries that burden. Insurance should be a last resort to save a site ... not the first. The recent opening of Ed Levin Park, Dockweiler Beach, and all of Utah's state parks points the way. Several of our U.S. Hawks chapters are in the lead with non-USHPA sites (Tooele Hawks, Southwest Texas Hang Gliders, South Central New York Hang Glider Pilots, Rio Grande Soaring Association, and Friends of Dockweiler).

4. Hang gliding must be shared friend to friend as it was in the beginning. Almost all other popular sports are predominantly shared that way: golf, tennis, bicycling, swimming, skiing, hiking, baseball, football, basketball, soccer, sailing, snorkeling, and so on. Yes, there is professional instruction available in all of those sports, but it's highly optional. There is no other unregulated sport - including SCUBA diving (the closest example) - where paid instruction holds such a monopoly barrier to entry. Hang gliding is no longer the mysterious and untrodden ground that it was in the 1970's. Every competent pilot today has sufficient knowledge to safely bring new people into the sport if they choose. They should be allowed - and encouraged - to do so. On-line materials should support this. USHPA's protection of the for-profit schools has done the opposite. It's also attracted greedy, impatient shysters for instructors who've displaced the time-honored mentoring and observer system that was in place when hang gliding was growing.

These are all the things championed by the U.S. Hawks.

Come join us.
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Re: Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:09 am

Ben Reese wrote:Until HG has its own voice once again, it cannot fully excel..
It’s differences are not celebrated and promoted enough..

Joe Faust wrote:Excellent analysis, Ben. Thank you.

Conclusion of need for a HG-focused org is spot on.


I agree with both.    :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:      :salute:
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Re: Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:12 pm

Swift ...

Swift wrote:
Christopher wrote:Here's an idea: hire an Association Communication Director to help promote the sport.

It's a corporate position in a company that doesn't make anything but corporate positions at corporation salaries.
I don't know what she can do with what she has to work with. I don't envy her job. I hope accolades are not what she took the job for.
There's only so much polish you can put on that turd.
Free advertisement for private, for profit instruction? What else is there?
USHPA is a corporation without a product.
It has sold their only asset/property.
Now they are lean and mean with no product but hot air.
They can't or won't teach anyone to fly hang gliders.

There's the answer. Create a non profit teaching system.
The money spent on corporate salaries would better be spent on a central teaching center.
One new pilot that otherwise will not go through the typical process to learn to fly may be all it takes to change the future prospects for the survival of hang gliding as we know it.
Reducing the cost and barriers to learning will bring in more prospects for saving hg from withering on the vine.

The corporate lawyer isn't ever going to expose the corporation/jobsecurity to the liability of instruction but they can donate to another non profit to do the work they won't do.
We could all donate. Work, equipment, infrastructure. Choosing the right people to run it and pay the people doing the work.

One millionaire could step up and fund this now. I think there are many.. Any volunteers to be the hero that helps save hang gliding for future generations?

Oh, that's right.. human contribution of .0024% of total atmospheric CO2 is going to kill us all within 12 years… what was I thinking?
Hang gliding people make a lot of CO2 compared to the proposed goal of 0%.
How is this going to work? Those that believe our tiny contribution of CO2 controls the weather will have to explain how their plan to save the world would ever work.
If we go third world in industrialized countries, maybe we could cut human contribution in half? Millions will die but maybe our contribution to the total atmospheric mix would then be .0012?


Third world doesn't have Land Cruisers with hang glider racks except for the Al Gore CO2 bosses. And maybe Davis?
It sure won't be me. Or likely you, either.
This is a conundrum. Do we save hang gliding or are we going to save the world?
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Re: Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding

Postby DaveSchy » Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:36 am

Approx 8000 members support 2 corporate jobs for $160,000 (plus expenses, etc), means $20 of each members dues of $150 goes to 2 people who RESTRICT access to our national airspace. These two have no intention to do more than keep feathering their nests, period.
Posing as an insurance company is fraud.
Why would any person stay in this "corporation" when a huge lawsuit would cause personal liability after the rrrg lawyer weasels out, and runs away? Is that worth $60,000 a year? Would anyone pay $150 a year for that potential road to personal ruin? Is $100 a year to play the lottery a better bet, with $50 left over for a nice meal?

Btw, lawyer gets paid either way, even when he finally will file for bankruptcy!!!
Run to fly and fly away...
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Re: Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding

Postby wingspan33 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:44 am

I need to say something about one person's posts over on that Oz Report thread. His user name is "Un Tuckable". He's gotta be a collapsible canopy plant because he says -

Un Tuckable wrote:. . . But they all make the first mistake of flying a aircraft with a proven deadly crash cage. That's not sane.


Notice he doesn't say "we" which, if he had used it would have defined him as a fellow hang glider pilot. So, we are "they" and he's a member of some other group (collapsible canopy occupants?).

But the main thing with his comment is that it's nonsensical! We've got ". . . proven deadly crash cage[s]" :srofl: This is either a big joke :lol: or a bold faced lie. :twisted:

From personal experience over 44 years I can't count how often (a couple dozen times at least) my "crash cage" (i.e., control bar down tubes) has/have saved me from serious injury. My down tubes have bent instead of my wrist(s) breaking. One or more times, in the early days, my control bar has snagged on tree branches (during the rare tree landing) and stopped me and my glider from falling to the ground 50 feet below.

Un Tuckable should untuck his head from that dark place and edit his comment to read -

Un Tuckable should have wrote:They all make the first good choice of flying an aircraft with a proven life saving control bar. Not having one is insane.


"Un Tuckable" also comments at the end of the same post -

Un Tuckable wrote:How about a new plan; make a glider that can pass a 30 MPH crash test?
:srofl: :srofl: :srofl:

This is where Un Tuck is showing his true colors. A hang glider may hit the ground at 30 mph if, . . .
#1) the pilot is dead because he/she has had a massive heart attack or stroke, or
#2) has no idea what he/she is doing (got the glider off ebay and has had no training at all).

There are probably a couple other reasons some idiot (oh, there's another reason, #3) being an idiot) may slam into the ground at 30 mph. But it doesn't happen often enough (barely at all, I'm sure) to require any manufacturer to build a hang glider to such 30 mph crash test standard.

Un Tuck is simply trying to exaggerate the PG promoter's false myth that hang gliders are unsafe because they fly faster than collapsible canopies. And he's doing so on a mostly HG forum with an avatar showing a very fuzzy hang glider. I have a feeling that if he sharpened the focus on that image it would turn into a collapsible canopy.
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Re: Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:11 am

DaveSchy wrote:Approx 8000 members support 2 corporate jobs for $160,000 (plus expenses, etc), means $20 of each members dues of $150 goes to 2 people who RESTRICT access to our national airspace.

Great point. This is an unsustainable model. The money wouldn't be an issue if it was believed to be helping the sport. But more and more people are seeing that the money goes toward strangling the sport.

DaveSchy wrote:These two have no intention to do more than keep feathering their nests, period.
Posing as an insurance company is fraud.

Bingo!!

DaveSchy wrote:Btw, lawyer gets paid either way, even when he finally will file for bankruptcy!!!
Run to fly and fly away...

Tim Herr (USHPA's lawyer) is at the heart of this mess. He's surely not in it for the flying.
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Re: Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:15 am

As of this morning, Davis considers discussion of the "Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding" as "Off Topic".   :crazy:

See my second point above:

2. The hang gliding community cannot continue to allow their communication channels to be controlled by Jack and Davis.
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Re: Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:01 am

Today we saw a sad ending to a topic that offered a lot of promise...

Ben Reese wrote:I have been banned from HG.Org, should I be expelled from USHPA..

Yea, Blind thinks so, but I am not asking him..

Blindrodie wrote:You can post and should post damn near anywhere you want. I never said …"ban him…" anywhere. I'm open to all sorts of lies/facts/BS/opinions/stories.

I'm quite mature and intelligent enough to see through all the mudslinging and misinformation. You are a case for sure. 

I'll keep doing my part. You do yours. You might be surprised who supports BK to a point. But not as a blog moderator, as he allows lies, half truths and and complete idiots to post unmoderated on the TH's forum. He even defends that sh*t! That's what knocks him completely out of the sky for me…

Reinstate him? As far as a USHPA member, I have little argument against that point. Is he a sh*tty moderator. IMHO you bet.

Right around that time the topic titled "Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding" was moved to the "Off Topic" section of the Oz Forum.

Swift wrote:Did we get sent to the sewer/basement because of you cussing about BK, or because you just wanted to shut things down? That's your unofficial job, right?
Or, was it on Christopher's idea to ban me for being insincere? (in his opinion)
Are we allowed to speak freely here or not?

Was that a rhetorical question?    Hold on, you'll get your answer soon enough.

Blindrodie wrote:I make no claim to fame like you two. I just happen to favor the truth and not argument for the sake of stupidity/ignorance/whatever you two want to call it.

Swift wrote:There is a lie right there. You are always claiming fame about your hang gliding history. 

Blindrodie wrote:Blamin' little 'ol me is just down right funny and you should be embarrassed at your perceived attitude and written word (mostly).

Swift wrote:Well that's mostly another lie. Are you trying to say that you had nothing to do with shutting down several discussions just recently? Come on. You were bragging about it. The great Monday morning massacre is the way I percieved it at the time. It shut down discussion on everything for days. 

Blindrodie wrote:Keep showin' your cards to this little free flight world here. Or you could get out there and do something about it.

Swift wrote:Was trying to do so when you and Christopher came along and got it shut down. It killed the moment. You showed your cards now what are you going to do about it?

Blindrodie wrote:What were we talkin' about anyway… 

Swift wrote:You used coarse language to say Bob K. wouldn't censor someone for saying bad things about you. I think that is a good thing. He doesn't censor your ability to counter that kind of information does he? What stops you from doing that? 

That's a good question Jim. The U.S. Hawks has the best record of both free speech and fair moderation of all the national forums. You would be treated fairly here and so would Warren. I don't have a dog in that fight, but even if I did, we have 4 other Board members (Joe, Bill, Sam, Scott) who could easily vote me down.

Blindrodie wrote:Oh yes saving the great sport of hang gliding! Sorry for the "…cussing…" I just honestly can't believe you guys want to spend the time to write all that cra… uh stuff!

Swift wrote:Well I hope you are sorry for cussing off topic and shutting the flow down on saving the sport. 

Blindrodie wrote:SO now what are you going to do? Shall we save hang gliding over here? Doesn't matter what side of the Oz Report we do it on does it!? (Rhetorical-don't take the bait) Well why not! You first.

Swift wrote:I was trying to do that. You interrupted, so you go first with your plan to save the sport of hang gliding.

Davis wrote:Enough with the personal attacks. The thread is closed.

And so ends all discussion of the "Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding". I'm sorry to have to quote the immortal words of Rick Masters ... yet again:

    "People talk about the sport of hang gliding dying. It's not dying. It's being murdered."

Davis and Jack have both been accomplices in that crime.
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Re: Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:14 am

It appears that Joe's post was removed from the Oz Forum for daring to say this:

file-3.jpg
file-3.jpg (78.9 KiB) Viewed 1283 times


Joe asked a reasonable question:

Joe Faust wrote:Why was my post deleted from this topic?
It mentioned issues very pointedly.
What issue mentioned did Davis or Scare not want to be shown?

The link for the issues HERE


Davis replied to Joe:

Davis Straub wrote:No links to Bob. K. No links to US Hawks.


I'm trying to think of a time in history when certain thoughts were so feared that they were banned from public discourse by those in power. I'm sure there have been many, but the one that stands out the most to me was Galileo being confined to house arrest ... for publishing that the earth went around the sun.

From Wikipedia:
In February 1616, an Inquisitorial commission declared heliocentrism to be: "foolish and absurd in philosophy, and formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts in many places the sense of Holy Scripture". ... Pope Paul V instructed Cardinal Bellarmine to deliver this finding to Galileo, and to order him to abandon the opinion that heliocentrism was physically true. On 26 February, Galileo was called to Bellarmine's residence and ordered:
... to abandon completely ... the opinion that the sun stands still at the center of the world and the earth moves, and henceforth not to hold, teach, or defend it in any way whatever, either orally or in writing.

... or he would be banned from the Oz Forum.    :srofl:

Wikipedia goes on ...
  • He was sentenced to formal imprisonment at the pleasure of the Inquisition. On the following day, this was commuted to house arrest, which he remained under for the rest of his life.
     
  • His offending Dialogue was banned; and in an action not announced at the trial, publication of any of his works was forbidden, including any he might write in the future.

As the saying goes, you just can't make up anything this hilarious. :srofl: :srofl: :srofl:
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Re: Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding

Postby JoeF » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:39 am

Doug M wrote:Really Davis?!?!
I happen to derive great joy from all the banter. I enjoy hearing all thoughts from Ben, blind, Joe, Swift, Bille, Steve, Tiki, others, AND references to BK and his forum. You sterilize things and there will be no salt for zesty dining. But this is your diner, so…


=====================
Davis confirms the direction for his forum for second time in two days:
DavisConfirmsNoPersonalRefsNoBobKNoUSHawks.JPG
DavisConfirmsNoPersonalRefsNoBobKNoUSHawks.JPG (32.3 KiB) Viewed 1256 times


Have a forum without referring to persons?
= No referencing documents written by real people?
= No citing people's names for idea presentations?
= No crediting co-pilots for good or bad actions or ideas?
= No referencing Internet pages owned by real people?
= No linking to the work done by real people?
= No writing of a real person's name during issue discussions?
= No issue involving real people?
= Do not refer to yourself, stick with the issue, even if the issue involves you???
= Do not sign your name, as that is a personal reference??????????
= Do not talk about Davis' just banning Swift, as that may involve personal references???????

Davis, maybe you are gutting your forum, sterilizing it, emptying it of meaningful discourse, countering the meaning of forum, ...?
Consider not being afraid of letting people strive to better the community of hang gliders; squashing names of people, deleting posts without communicating, destroying the flow of discussions, etc. may result in your forum becoming stale, shallow, ineffective for good, .. Important issues involve real people; referencing real people may be essential when discussing relationships with real people. Orgs without real people are simply shells.

Stick to the issues?
Here is an issue: :arrow: USHPA needs to undo a severe wrong done to BobK. Not resolving that issue will keep the rot in the USHPA core. What that org does to any member is important matter; when the action is grave, then the call for profound resolution grows. Pretending to forget such deep wrong won't stop the injury to the org or to the injured real person. Each real person director who participated in the severe injustice done (still doing) to BobK is called to make proper amends and then some! Naming each of the directors is fair game; the matter is done by people against a person and in radiance against all of us in the hang gliding community. If USHPA continues to refuse to correct the matter, then every paying member may be called upon to stop being a paying member, as feeding an org that stoutly supports deep injustice seems to Implicate each participating member once the scene's true facts are realized.

Distinct issues: Note the differences of these issues:
= Save USHPA or bury it.
= Take P out of USHPA; if not, HG exodus to a focus HG org?
= Support an association org that focuses just on a US recreational hang gliding where transparency and fairness reign.
= Support an org that specializes in competition HG events with alcohol funding.
= Separate PG from HG. Every author, magazine, e zine, publisher, newspaper, etc: "Please have your staff know the stark differences between HG and PG and PHG and PPG.
= Support class action lawsuit against sellers of paragliders, instructors of paragliding, and USHPA for its promotion of paragliding.
= Recreational hang gliding does not need "saving." Hang gliding will call out to some people throughout the coming ages.
= Hang gliding needs to be saved??? By whom? What ulterior purpose?
= The deep censorship habit of Davis and Jack may lead to their forum's relevance collapse.
= How Davis and Jack systematically may be killing USHPA by censoring discussion participants, disjointing the HG community, constructing holes in HG's history.

etc.
many issues. All issues involve the productions of real people; reference those real people to trace the ebb and flow of ideas.
======================================

Funny footnote: :roll: Davis breaks his own rule when he made personal references:
Davis breaking his own recent rule wrote:"Again no references to US Hawks or Bob K."

In that he gave a personal reference to Bob K. Dislocation is occurring!
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