US Hawks Hang Gliding Association

http://energykitesystems.net/Lift/hgh/T ... elines.pdf

Can anyone here point out any discrepancy in this document ?

Just gave it a fairly thorough reread for the first in a very long time (thanks for the prod) and was pleased to find that it still seems pretty solid.

Did, however, find a mistake, something I incorporated from original USHGA material that doesn't need to be there, and a couple of big holes that need plugging.

Pilots below Advanced skill level should learn by first towing tandem, then with a novice glider...

I somehow managed to get "Advanced" in where "Intermediate" had been in the USHGA version.

Also... I'm not a fan of forcing or pressuring people with Hang 2.5 and above free flying skills to go through tandem training. People were not dropping like flies prior to the advent of large scale tandem operation. If someone knows left from right in free flight aerotowing is not that B an Fing D.

One of the rare instances of something intelligent coming out of aerotow culture...

Dolly launch...

With your hands on the basetube you grasp a hold-down which is a line spanning the front of the cart so you can keep yourself firmly connected to it until liftoff to prevent this kind of thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb4nUTAJXTk

from happening. (Note how, after the first emergency is recovered from, the Straub/Rooney Link increases the safety of the towing operation. PERIOD.

Two problems...

People were strapping varios to basetubes after the gliders were on the carts...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 206080003#

(Note how the tug fails to make a good decision in the interest of the glider's safety and the glider gets the time and air to deal with the problem and lives, in contrast to the very similar situation (1999/02/27 - Rob Richardson) precipitated by a misrouted bridle in which the tug IMMEDIATELY makes a good decision in the interest of the glider's safety and the "pilot" is killed instantly.)

...and another cart or two got airborne as a consequence of the hold-down being looped over a speedbar.

So somebody with a brain replaced the continuous hold-down with short port and starboard sections. That needs to be made mandatory (even if everybody's doing it that way now anyway).

And then we've got this perennial little boo-boo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u51qpPLz5U0

Current wording for foot launch:

Check conditions and signal when ready.

Make that signal a mandatory double lift and tug (or, if the pilot is physically incapable of an actual lift and tug, a simulated lift and tug to get him and everyone else involved and watching at least considering the issue) and that problem goes away.

So, Current Dictator Bob and Future President Sam... What were YOUR impressions of the document?

Just kidding, we should probably just play it safe and harmonize with Rooney Tunes.

TadEareckson wrote:So, Current Dictator Bob and Future President Sam... What were YOUR impressions of the document?

Just kidding, we should probably just play it safe and harmonize with Rooney Tunes.

OK, so exactly where have I been a "Current Dictator"? Please name one single instance. There's no need to write War and Peace. Just tell me where I've acted as a "Current Dictator" on this forum?

Thanks in advance.

OK, so exactly where have I been a "Current Dictator"? Please name one single instance.

You ARE a dictator. You have total control over this forum. You can do anything you like without accountability.

I don't necessarily have a problem with that. It can be a pretty good way to handle things if you've got the right person with his fingers on the buttons.

I'm a dictator on Kite Strings. I've banned a spammer or two and have edited people's posts - but just to clean up typos. And the LAST thing that Kite Strings is gonna be is a democracy in which a bunch of Rooney Follower a**holes are gonna become a majority of the "community", start clicking their "Sink This!" buttons, send me to The Basement, and vote me out of power.

And a dictatorship isn't a bad organizational model for hang gliding 'cause hang gliding is ruled by a brutal but fair and consistent dictator who goes by the name of Mother Nature. And if an organizational dictator develops an understanding of Mother Nature's rules and structures accordingly things can run extremely smoothly.

And I'd MUCH rather fly under the rule of a competent dictator than an oligarchy of shitheaded tug drivers - the latter route just wasn't doing it for me.

Just tell me where I've acted as a "Current Dictator" on this forum?

I dunno, what's a dictator act like? What's the dictator "lifestyle"? If someone plunges into dangerous surf to save a kid from drowning can you safely assume he's not a dictator?

But I'll tell you - as I have already told you - where I'm seeing some creep in the wrong direction.

I'm trying to get through to Al that the single most dangerous thing he can do in hang gliding is assume that he's hooked in two seconds before launch and that ten minutes does not satisfy the requirement of "just prior" - no matter what his excellent instructor has told him.

I don't need that issue trivialized, my intentions second guessed, or the purpose of a discussion defined for me.

If I see something wrong I'm gonna say something about it. And if you delete that clause out the mission statement I'm still gonna say something about stuff I see wrong until you, President Sam, or the US Hawks Board of Directors bans me. And then I'm gonna say it somewhere else.

TadEareckson wrote:So, Current Dictator Bob and Future President Sam...

bobk wrote:OK, so exactly where have I been a "Current Dictator"? Please name one single instance.

TadEareckson (paraphrased) wrote:Blah, blah, blah ...

Translation: Tad has no examples of Bob being a "Current Dictator".

bobk wrote:Just tell me where I've acted as a "Current Dictator" on this forum?

TadEareckson (paraphrased) wrote:Blah, blah, blah ...

Translation: Tad's got nothing, but he doesn't like that Sam banned him from SWTHG. So he calls Bob a Dictator. Boo hoo.

Tad, the one thing that I did read in your "blah, blah, blah" was your comment:

TadEareckson wrote:I'm trying to get through to Al that the single most dangerous thing he can do in hang gliding is assume that he's hooked in two seconds before launch and that ten minutes does not satisfy the requirement of "just prior" - no matter what his excellent instructor has told him.

And I'm trying to get through to you that Al already knew he was hooked in because he felt the glider trying to pull him off the hill. A glider doesn't feel like it's pulling you off the hill if you're not hooked in. What part of that don't you understand?

Bob,

Do you find any discrepancy in this document?

TadEareckson (paraphrased) wrote:
Blah, blah, blah ...

I'm not real thrilled about being paraphrased as having written "Blah, blah, blah ..."

Translation: Tad's got nothing, but he doesn't like that Sam banned him from SWTHG.

I don't give a rat's a** about being banned from SWTHG. That pig ain't never never gonna do any singing worth listening to by anyone who isn't stinking drunk. And I know that IMMEDIATELY upon our first encounter. All Sam did with the ban button was confirm my take that it was a really rotten idea to give him the benefit of any imaginable doubt.

So he calls Bob a Dictator. Boo hoo.

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31

But you see... I'm the guy you've got to convince.
(or whoever your tug pilot may be... but we all tend to have a similar opinion about this)

You've not heard about strong-link incidents.
Uh, yeah... cuz we don't let you use them.

"light" weaklink issues?
"I had to land"... boo hoo.

I think I'm detecting a pattern.

Zack C - 2011/08/26

Wow. The irony. The ARROGANCE. And people call TAD arrogant...I can see why you have so much contempt for this guy, Tad.

Banning - Commentary

bobk - 2010/09/14

>
Bobfly wrote:
Bob had potential. But he's too much of "my way or the hiway" type of guy.
<

Sorry Bobfly, but banning people for disagreeing is the definition of "my way or the hiway".

I will stand my ground and I will discuss a matter, and discuss a matter, and then discuss it some more. But I've never tossed anyone off of a forum (told them to "hit the highway") for disagreeing with me. So you are incorrect to say I'm a "my way or the highway" type of guy. That phrase ("my way or the highway") would be more appropriately applied to those who have actually kicked people off of their forums (or their organizations) because they couldn't stand up to a fair argument. Here are three examples from my own experience:

1. Davis...
2. SG and KK...
3. SG...

Now who are the "my way or the highway" people in these examples? In all three cases, I was banned because those people had no good arguments to the points I was making. They were all COWARDS and used the ban button because they couldn't stand up to a fair argument.

Free

Banning = Definition of "My Way or the Hiway"

Every banning that I have experienced has also had an element of cowardice.
Banning opposing opinions is always the law of the lowest common denominator.
Discussions and ideas are limited to the base level intellect of those with the power of the mouse click banning.
The group as a whole suffers those limitations.

bobk

Absolutely right.

Ditto.

And I'm trying to get through to you that Al already knew he was hooked in because he felt the glider trying to pull him off the hill. A glider doesn't feel like it's pulling you off the hill if you're not hooked in. What part of that don't you understand?

So what you're saying is that the ONLY way Al could POSSIBLY have felt that glider pulling him forward would've been been through his suspension? That if his carabiner had been dangling behind his knees, arms were wrapped around his downtubes, and glider was clamped down on his shoulders a rotor or tailwind would have had no detectable effect?

LOOK at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd1EIsbG0p0

1. Where is Brandon the first time you see his suspension go tight?

2. And you don't think he could've felt the glider pulling forward if it had been?

3. So there's no point in having someone on the tail as long as you keep the glider down on your shoulders and a foot and a half of slack in the suspension?

4. So if he hadn't been hooked in and the glider had been blown forward there would have been NO CHANCE he'd have gone with it (as far as the 32 second mark anyway)?

Are you SURE you wanna stand by a statement that ASTOUNDINGLY CLUELESS?

You might wanna spend a little more time on some of the blah blah blah stuff in the future.

I did my HOOK IN and tested to make sure that I was HOOKED IN 4 times before launch.... So, I know I am HOOKED IN the glider I could feel it pulling on me, the wind was blowing, as I stepped up to the Platform, I stood there for about 10 minutes, I was having trouble blanching the glider level in that wind, Jeff was instructing me on how to hold the glider in that type of wind, finally after a few tries, I got it.

I felt as if the ramp was sucking me into it, it felt like a vacuum cleaner, I was telling Jeffo don't let go, the damn ramp is sucking me in, do worry he said, it is just the glider wanting to fly just relax, I will not move till you say clear and I won't let you go, or launch into bad wind....

There is NO INDICATION WHATSOEVER that the suspension was EVER tensioned from the time he got on the ramp and the time he left it. And if I had to wager five bucks I'd say it WASN'T. He was scared and my best guess is that he had the glider clamped down on his shoulders the whole time and left the ramp EXACTLY like Brandon did.

But maybe Al can set the record straight for us.

Bob,

Do you find any discrepancy in this document?

Bob's probably tied up right now so maybe it'll be OK for me to take a stab on his behalf.

Equipment
-Weak Links
--Relative Strengths
---Tow Line

Change:

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah mandatory...

to:

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah recommended...

I did feel the ramp sucking me in

I know I was hooked in because at the foot of the ramp I hooked myself in and closed the gate myself, drooped and did a hang check and got up and checked the carabiner again, then I stepped forward to feel the pull... I lifted the glider way up to feel the tug again, so I know that I was hooked in.... all I had to do next was put a combination lock on it to seal it.

My main problem that I took note of was controlling the glider in higher winds there was a lot of trash air in the area which made it harder to hold the HG level in higher winds... So, I had to wait for a good cycle to blow into the launch area and catch it before more trash air would blow in.... I remember that I had to bury my shoulders into the control frame to have a better hold of the HG...

It should be pretty freaking obvious by now that:

a) there's no indication of the suspension ever going tight in the ten minutes it took to get the glider on the back end of the ramp and off the front;

b) Al probably had the glider mashed down on his shoulders the whole time he was prepping for launch;

c) there was no verification of hook-in status in anything remotely satisfying the definition of "just prior to launch"; and

d) one can indeed get pulled forward by a glider when the suspension is slack.

So maybe we could get on the same page with respect to reality and move forward?

Nobody wrote:http://energykitesystems.net/Lift/hgh/TadEareckson/ATGuidelines.pdf

Can anyone here point out any discrepancy in this document ?

Tow Ring
The tow ring must be selected with respect to its weight and the danger it poses to the glider in the event of a tow line failure or tug release. A carabiner is often employed due to the convenience with which it may be connected to a bridle already engaged by its release but this device
“must treated” as a potential hazard in that it has the capability to connect to a nose wire after release and has been known to connect to a basetube during one point towing. Due to
this latter phenomenon it is mandatory that a carabiner be connected to a one point bridle gate up.

Is carabiner spelled carabineer? I’m not sure.
Still looking----
Very fine effort Tad.