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Re: Safe-Splat

Postby reluctantsparrow » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:31 am

Sorry Frank,
I have not been online for almost a week. Been working on a solution for the "flare from the downtubes" dilemma presented by PG Harnesses and current suprone/supine style harnesses. Did a full day of testing at Dog Mtn. Yesterday. Testing an idea presented by another Engineer, Peter Jamtgaurd, who actually showed up on my doorstep unannounced to both donate AND give me the best idea so far that might solve the problem. (Peter is a non-pilot who now wants to learn to hang glide because of the "suprone" videos).
Peters idea is to extend the "spreader bar downward about 16 inches fully integrated with the risers, then initiate a 50 degree bend and extend the tubing/risers combo all the way down to the lower portion of the harness.
What this does (I have already built a prototype) is hold the riser a full 8 inches in front of the pilots shoulders when a pilot is rocked up in the verticle position with hands on the down tubes ready to flare.
I have already built a very rough prototype and Peters idea does indeed hold the risers a full 8 inches in front of my shoulders.
8 inches is the exact amount required for a full flare. I should work. I am building a second prototype to be used on a small sand dune I found yesterday to test how it behaves I actual flight.
I tested yesterday how it behaves during the take off sequence and the result was great. no interference with the take off sequence. Pics soon....I will go check the PM Frank......SJ
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Re: Safe-Splat

Postby Rick Masters » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:55 am

Somewhere along your testing run, have some strong guys throw you up against the side wires to see if the new suspension system would catch on them (or other parts) in severe turbulence when you go weightless or slam the keel with your helmet.
You should be able to design out any potential problem.
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Re: Safe-Splat

Postby Frank Colver » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:25 pm

Well Jim, will you please reply to the PM I sent you if only to say: "no thanks", Frank.

I'm surprised that you didn't reply to the offer.

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Re: Safe-Splat

Postby reluctantsparrow » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:24 am

Frank Colver wrote:Well Jim, will you please reply to the PM I sent you if only to say: "no thanks", Frank.

I'm surprised that you didn't reply to the offer.

Frank



A big thank you to Bob K for hooking up Frank C. and myself. As it turns out, I was not receiving notifications of Franks PM. We have since, thanks to Bob K. made contact and even spoken personally via phone. I have also discovered all :US Hawks "notifications" had been routed to my email spam folder....have no idea how that happened.....but regardless,.....Frank C. and I are now in good communication with each other. Thanks Bob K., Your phone calls to both Frank and myself made the difference!
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Re: Safe-Splat

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:44 am

reluctantsparrow wrote:Thanks Bob K., Your phone calls to both Frank and myself made the difference!

The U.S. Hawks is dedicated to our members.

I very much like our forum, but I believe that all forms of "social media" are a poor substiute for direct communication by phone or - especially - in person.

That's why I encourage our members to call each other and to call me any time.    :thumbup:
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org
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Re: Safe-Splat

Postby reluctantsparrow » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:19 am

I flew yesterday with the "proof of concept" suprone harness I built last week and referred to in a previous post. Found a small beach to test it on. Ran fine, launched fine, Flared fantastic without having to "rotate" through the risers.....I just ran off a twenty foot high hill (no time for "rotating" arms through the risers) and performed a full flare, stand up landing with plenty of room between the shoulders and the risers to do so. My flare was a full, "flare like an angel" body extension and I did not experience any restrictions on my movement. In fact, I noticed as I "held" the flare and dropped in to a perfect, no step landing that there was still a good couple of inches between my shoulders and the risers....a very successful test..getting closer all the time!
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Re: Safe-Splat

Postby wingspan33 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:59 am

RS,

This sounds great! Particularly to have a "pre" hang glider pilot show up at your door with a great idea for improvement!

I wonder how many people have resisted trying hang gliding because they don't like the images of prone flying? When I started in 1975 all I knew about was flying in the seated position. I briefly flew supine then went to prone. I've had no problem with it but I could imagine some people being concerned with pounding their head into the ground on a bad landing.

I'd love to see pictures, ASAP, of your new developments. Even better still would be some video of your harness in action. :thumbup:
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Re: Safe-Splat

Postby Frank Colver » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:06 pm

In 9 years of flying I never even tried prone I liked seated so much.

I also had the bad vibes from my good friend, Chuck Kocsis, getting killed on his very first prone flight after a lot of seated flying. His head hit the ground and tucked under him breaking his neck. We knew this because the scratches on his helmet went from back to front. :cry:

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Re: Safe-Splat

Postby reluctantsparrow » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:35 am

RS & Frank C.,
I am getting a lot of feedback from PG pilots who WANT to crossover to HG but do not want to fly head first. My engineer friend Peter Jamtgaard, whose company specializes in safety restraint systems and who gave me the harness idea I am currently testing is very serious about learning to HG now that he see's the 'suprone" position demonstrated successfully. Not only that, Peter is building a new home in Chelan Wa. on top of a mountain overlooking Lake Chelan, facing south (full sun exposure), with his backyard on the ridgeline 2,000 feet above the lake and the Manson golf course. Peter stood on my porch and personally begged me to teach him to fly HG in the Suprone position. Peter even wants input on a roof design for his new home so he can walk his glider up one side and launch off the other......totally doable given his location on the ridge. How fun.
An update on Peters forward cantilevered riser design.....Yes, it works, but in it's current configuration is a solid, 1 1/8 inch tube bent to a certain specification married to continues webbing....a bit awkward in ground handling.
Frank....think about this....imagine risers coming down from the hang point as they usually do....in a straight line between the caribiner and just forward of the pilots buttocks....okay....now make that riser tubular webbing....and a large enough "tube" of webbing to slide some rigid material inside the 'tube" of webbing....now, instead of a solid bar bent to certain specifications, (like my current set up).....imagine the ideal shape of that bar chopped into segments, like the phalanges on our fingers.....and lets connect those "segments" (surrounded by tubular webbing) with joints that freely pivot in one direction (the side facing the pilot) but lets make those joints so they lock up at certain degrees in the opposite direction (facing away from the pilot).
What we would have then are flexible risers that drape over the pilots shoulders and do not inhibit the pilot in any way when the glider is picked up....the risers would simply "curl" under towards the pilot....(via the 'joints' that only allow the risers to "curl" in one direction)....
Then, as the pilot begins the take off run....the 'risers' uncurl but the "joints" inside limit how far they are allowed to "uncurl"....just like the phalanges on our fingers....
Hold your fingers up....perfectly straight....the bend your finger....for most of us our fingers are only allowed to curl in one direction only and can not be "bent" backwards.....so, lets just limit the "unfolding" of our fingers just a little bit so when the finger is straightened as much as possible the finger is still held in a predetermined "curve" away from the pilots shoulders..with "P" representing the pilot and the parenthesis mark representing fully loaded risers that can only unfold to predetirmined degree marks
P )
This allows 8 inches between the pilots shoulders and the risers when the pilot is in the upright position ready to flare....
This is the shape I am flying with now....so when I am totally upright and ready to flare from the DTs the front risers are still 8 inches in front of my shoulders....and viola!....I have had three full flare landings In this configuration and perfect no-step landings each time....
the last landing I paid special attention to the distance left between my shoulders and the risers and there was still 1-2 inches of clear airspace between them during a Larry Tudor , "flare like an angel" style flare......now...
imagine if those risers draped over my shoulders were soft and flexible.....with "one way finger joints".. and covered by nice soft webbing..as described above....but when the harness loads up those joints lock up to form the perfect shape for flaring.....
a simple solution indeed.....in fact...
With this solution the only thing that really needs to be invented are the "one way finger joints".
I am calling this the "phalanges" solution....
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Re: Safe-Splat

Postby reluctantsparrow » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:26 am

a few front porch pics of the "phalanges solution'....note:
1. I miscalculated my harness length and yes, I made it a bit "short". Still launches fine but the total height from butt to hang loop should be taller.
2. Even though it launches fine and lands fantastic, a soft, flexible "phalanges" type solution would be more ideal.
I am holding up my finger in this shot to illustrate how such "finger joints" with limitation of forward movements would work....
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