The Hang Gliding Historical Committee is tasked with preserving and celebrating the rich history of hang gliding.

Re: Joe Faust

Postby Frank Colver » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:24 pm

HG.org is a pissant little insignificant web forum. Equating it to the very important protest of Rosa Parks did give me a good laugh, however.

Nothing will ever get Jack to change his forum because it is entirely his and he can do anything he wants with it.

That said, poking him in the ass every once in a while can keep him on his toes and watching for the next jab.

Building the US Hawks is the most effective thing we can do and not sweat HG.org which is OK for passing along HG information, as you say, but not for changing the wrong direction hang gliding is taking now. That has to be done on US Hawks, USHGRS, and unknown sites yet to come.

I've been waiting for things to settle down a little, a few pablum posts to calm the waters.....................????????????

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Re: Joe Faust

Postby magentabluesky » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:30 pm

Hang Gliding Dot Org does not define who Joe, Frank, or Rick is. They themselves have defined and demonstrated their character long ago. Thank you very much.

Fifty years ago at the prelude to the rebirth of Hang Gliding was: 2001: A Space Odyssey



P.S. Stanley Kubrick was the same director of Paths of Glory.
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Re: Joe Faust

Postby Rick Masters » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:46 pm

That has to be done on US Hawks, USHGRS, and unknown sites yet to come.

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Re: Joe Faust

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:52 am

Frank Colver wrote:HG.org is a pissant little insignificant web forum.

Some folks consider the entire sport of hang gliding to be insignificant. For better or worse (mostly worse) HG.org is the largest gathering of hang gliding pilots on the web. Anyone wanting to improve the sport is hurting their effort by not reaching those pilots.

Frank Colver wrote:Equating it to the very important protest of Rosa Parks did give me a good laugh, however.

A comparison of similar features is not "equating" so please don't say or imply that I ever equated them. The numbers of people alone make them grossly unequal. The salient similarities, however, are: (1) standing up for one's rights to the point of spending time in jail, (2) defying authority in order to bring a matter to court, and (3) winning rights for a group of otherwise disenfranchised people. David Jebb used the police to intimidate and remove pilots a number of times. Ask David Beardslee. It was done to him. My cases never went to court because the City Attorney knew they'd lose in court. The last arrest was in the summer of 2015, and the Torrey Concessionaire hasn't played that card since. We've all been able to go there freely ever since. The efforts at Torrey and Dockweiler and Point of the Mountain and USHPA and HG.org have all been part of a "civil rights" movement for hang gliding pilots. I think Rosa Parks would be quite happy to have inspired those efforts.

Frank Colver wrote:Nothing will ever get Jack to change his forum because it is entirely his and he can do anything he wants with it.

When I speak to the City Council every week, they listen with mostly deaf ears. But my speeches also reach the voters. It had been decades since any incumbent San Diego City Councilmember had lost an election. Two of them lost their elections just last week. I'm not claiming credit, but I believe every bit of pressure helps. It's not one straw that breaks the camel's back. It's the collective weight of all of them working together. If Scott and I hadn't been banned by Jack in 2010, we wouldn't even have the U.S. Hawks today. We did our part in 2010 laying the foundation for a reformation in the sport. Joe Faust has done the same back in 2010 all the way up to today in 2018. Your own posts, Frank, have been super. We have all been straws in that growing pile, and the weight is evident in Jack's increasingly ridiculous censorship. We won't know which straw will be the last until it happens.

Knowing Jack, he may never relent on his bans of Joe and others. But that doesn't mean that the complaints are useless. Other good people will see what's going on. They will vote with their own feet. If there are no consequences for Joe's ban, then Jack is rewarded for his misdeed.

Frank Colver wrote:Building the US Hawks is the most effective thing we can do and not sweat HG.org which is OK for passing along HG information, as you say, but not for changing the wrong direction hang gliding is taking now. That has to be done on US Hawks, USHGRS, and unknown sites yet to come.

I mostly agree with you. Some of that growth will hopefully come from our own outreach efforts at places like Torrey and Dockweiler. Some of that growth will come from USHPA continually shooting themselves in the foot. But some of the growth will come from people on the "doppleganger" forums seeing what's going on. To that last end, I'd like to see some brave souls asking simple questions like:

    "Jack, can you please tell us what rule Joe broke?"

and:

    "Jack, can you please tell us why you obliterate 'USHGRS' in our own posts?"

Don't let him dodge it. Be another straw. Do the same at USHPA. Yes, there will be casualties as there always have been. Don't let it deter you. These are the lessons taught by Rosa Parks and those throughout history who've fought for the rights and dignity we enjoy today.
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