The Hang Gliding Historical Committee is tasked with preserving and celebrating the rich history of hang gliding.

Octave Chanute: Planes and Trains

Postby Free » Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:45 pm

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Re: Octave Chanute: Planes and Trains

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:14 pm

I just want to note that I've gotten a report complaining about this topic:

 ============== Moderation Report ============== 

Reported on Feb 08, 2015 wrote:Report reason: Off-topic

Off topic for a hang gliding historical committee posting. I see this as a purposeful waste of time.
The person making this post should be monitored for future abuses.

 ============== Moderation Report Response ============== 

At the present time, we're still working on how to resolve issues like this.

For now, I will defer to our resident historians Joe and Neil. If either of them expresses a desire to have it moved, I will move it temporarily until we can establish a more permanent procedure for situations like this.

 ============== Update as of February 16th, 2015 ============== 

Since we still haven't implemented a "jury of our peers" to make moderation decisions, I'm going to start ruling on all moderation requests myself (as I've done here). In many cases (like this one), I'll often defer to someone who might have more expertise in the topic being discussed.

Finally, I want to thank the person submitting the report. I've decided to handle these reports by quoting the report in the topic where the report was filed without the reporting person's name. So if you want to file a report without me posting all of it, please let me know that in the report itself. We don't have a post rating system installed here at this time, and I hope we can do without one. I encourage people to use the "Report" button to let me know about any topic that you feel needs moderation. We may disagree on the result, but disagreements happen even when people are working together toward the same goal. So please don't let my decision in any one case affect your willingness to report anything that you think might improve the US Hawks for our members. Thanks.
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Re: Octave Chanute: Planes and Trains

Postby Free » Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:47 pm

bobk wrote:I just want to note that I've gotten a report complaining about this topic:
Off topic for a hang gliding historical committee posting. I see this as a purposeful waste of time.
The person making this post should be monitored for future abuses.

At the present time, we're still working on how to resolve issues like this.

For now, I will defer to our resident historians Joe and Neil. If either of them expresses a desire to have it moved, I will move it temporarily until we can establish a more permanent procedure for situations like this.



Just delete it, Bob. After all an anonymous person doesn't like it.
It is historical. Octave Chanute would have loved to see it himself.
Did he even dream of such futuristic contrivance in his artist/engineer's mind?
Who knows? Most people wouldn't even know the connection in the first place.
Those are the people that need to be monitored.

So delete with gusto!
You are the Emperor here. You might as well act like it.
I reposted it days ago in a more proper box in the basement.
It makes me smile and I can watch it over and over!
Anyone that finds it boring can't really understand what they are witnessing anyway.
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Re: Octave Chanute: Planes and Trains

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:56 pm

Free wrote:Just delete it, Bob. After all an anonymous person doesn't like it.
It is historical. Octave Chanute would have loved to see it himself.
Did he even dream of such futuristic contrivance in his artist/engineer's mind?
Who knows? Most people wouldn't even know the connection in the first place.

It's not a question of deleting it. It's just a matter of whether it belongs here or not. I'll leave it for now, and defer to the historical committee as I mentioned earlier. As with the local club forums, I'm trying to build a model where different people take ownership of different parts of the forum.

Free wrote:You are the Emperor here. You might as well act like it.

I have actually taken some criticism from various people (including yourself) for not being the Emperer here and deleting other topics. I'm trying to do a responsible job of allowing people to speak their minds in an organized manner so people can find what they're interested in finding.

Free wrote:It makes me smile and I can watch it over and over!

That makes me smile as well.      :thumbup:
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Re: Octave Chanute: Planes and Trains

Postby Free » Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:34 pm

bobk wrote:
I have actually taken some criticism from various people (including yourself) for not being the Emperer here and deleting other topics.

I don't recall anyone speaking up when I called for a little common sense. I have the whole thing in a file I could go back and review if you think I'm wrong. Your argument was selfish and you would not act to protect innocent people from obvious sock puppet trolls! That is what is so infuriating in your latest paranoic prattling about Tad's sock puppets. Get a clue man.
Have you yet to turn the information over to the proper authorities? I'm guessing no.
You got snippy about it with me before, saying if I thought that was the right thing to do then I should do it.
By God, I will if you just turn over the information you harbor.
You need to do something soon.
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Re: Octave Chanute: Planes and Trains

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:19 pm

Free wrote:I don't recall anyone speaking up when I called for a little common sense. I have the whole thing in a file I could go back and review if you think I'm wrong.

Please review it. You'll find that several of us were actively and vocally supporting Sara post after post. What was missing was support from local pilots in the Lakeview area.

Free wrote:Your argument was selfish and you would not act to protect innocent people from obvious sock puppet trolls!

Please review it again. You'll see that I acted very vocally. I didn't initially know that they were all "sock puppets" so I tried to address their concerns one on one. That's why I pushed for telephone conversations ... so I could be sure I was speaking with real people. Typing to people on the Internet is completely unreliable, and that's why I've asked to speak directly to people like "Nobody" and even yourself. I did actually get a call from one of those "people", but they hung up after a few short words. Maybe they were afraid I'd recognize their voice.

Warren, you have no idea how many phone calls I placed to various people in Lakeview during that time. I spent hours on the phone talking to Sara, Sara's mother, and several other pilots in the area. You are wrong to say that I would not act to protect innocent people. I may not have done it the way you wanted, but that doesn't mean I was doing nothing.

Free wrote:Have you yet to turn the information over to the proper authorities? I'm guessing no.
You got snippy about it with me before, saying if I thought that was the right thing to do then I should do it.

I meant what I said. If you want to do something, then please step up and do it.

Free wrote:By God, I will if you just turn over the information you harbor.

I've just sent you an email message that contains the information that I've also shared with someone else who has offered to look into it. Please let me know when you get it. I ask that you not share that information with anyone other than law enforcement. Right now I'm still defending myself against the false charges at Torrey Pines, and I haven't wanted to spread myself any thinner than I am now. I will help more after that case is settled.
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Re: Octave Chanute: Planes and Trains

Postby JoeF » Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:44 pm

Chanute's Zweidecker im Fluge
ChanutesZweideckerimFluge.jpg
ChanutesZweideckerimFluge.jpg (40.32 KiB) Viewed 3244 times
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Re: Octave Chanute: Planes and Trains

Postby JoeF » Wed May 04, 2016 7:32 am

Fine replica project:

Thanks to ARP notice:

Carsten Brinkmeier has posted his latest build of a 1904 Chanute on YouTube

Chanute Glider 1904
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Re: Octave Chanute: Planes and Trains

Postby Rick Masters » Wed May 04, 2016 7:54 am

Good way to drive people off the site.
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Re: Octave Chanute: Planes and Trains

Postby JoeF » Wed May 04, 2016 8:47 am

Octave Chanute's railroad mind may be seen in the biplane that he spent much time on.
His engineering mind that had rails running brought firm biplane hang gliders; such evolved into airplanes.
A delving into the railroad Octave Chanute mind may be seen as part of hang gliding history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octave_Chanute
Since the biplane hang glider was a huge part of hang gliding history ... even lasting to our current era,
profound sensing Octave Chanute could grace some hang glider participants' hobby and sport.

Clip from today's wiki:
Civil Engineer (Railroads)

Hannibal Bridge from 1908 postcard
Octave Chanute began his training as a budding civil engineer in 1848.
He was widely considered brilliant and innovative in the engineering profession. During his career he designed and constructed the United States' two biggest stock yards, Chicago Stock Yards (1865) and Kansas City Stockyards (1871). He designed and built the Hannibal Bridge which was the first bridge to cross the Missouri River in Kansas City, Missouri, in 1869 and established Kansas City as the dominant city in the region. He designed many other bridges during his railroad career, including the Illinois River rail bridge at Chillicothe, Illinois,[3] the Genesee River Gorge rail bridge near Portageville, New York (now in Letchworth State Park), the bridge across the Missouri River at Sibley, Missouri, across the Mississippi River at Fort Madison, Iowa, and the Kinzua.


When I see a Chanute biplane hang glider, I see the "two-ness" of the wings and recall the "two-ness" of the rails that were a large part of Octave Chanute's life. And I see the bridge-engineer in him extending that truss mind into biplane wing hang glider. The inclines of railroads are very important for parking and launching long heavy trains; the inclines of the air for gliding are important to us; the inclines of HG launching are important. Hang gliding has very much in common with trains. I live next to two streets called Block and the other Beatie (Be a tie); these are next a parking of trains place; the heavy trains park very carefully on a very long slow hump so that launching from rest can be done by sliding down the long slow incline where not much energy is required as gravity is employed just like Octave used inclines to use gravity to have his men launch his biplane and triplane hang gliders. I frequently kite and hang glider near the rails and recall Octave Chanute's involvement with rails for railroad.

Notice in the wiki some of his patents. Rolling stock. Flying machine. etc. The topics are intertwined. TRich and profound hang gliding appreciation is teased by the topic's video. From trains to airplanes .... hang gliding designer pioneer engineer Octave Chanute stands tall for hang gliding's history. Removing the rails and transportation and need for inclines of Octave Chanute from hang gliding history would form a large sad hole.

Take some energy to place up on the topic table just how rich the topic teaser is. The topic starter gave a near-genius tease that may form a very appropriate topic. Those readers not yet moving into the heart of the first post to find hang gliding are yet missing out on a hang gliding history paramount topic. The topic is one indicator how strong US Hawks is as regards appreciation of hang gliding history matters.

Here is a clip from one of O. Chanute's aviation patents where railroad rails are part of the scene in several ways:
RailsAndPlanesCLIPpatent.JPG
RailsAndPlanesCLIPpatent.JPG (29.1 KiB) Viewed 3139 times


A week or so ago with low wind, the wing being flown by me was felt heavier than usual in the carryback. After 20 carrybacks days later I found that I had been bruising my left shoulder rotator cuff in that flight session; I am designing and building a shoulder cushion that I will wear that will protect the shoulder some from the carryback downtubes. Having a Chanute railroad in the carryback might be a solution :) Hats off to O. Chanute for his mental training in bridges for trains and attention on rail designs all of which fed his hang glider design mind.


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In :arrow: :idea: Image
one may detect the seeds of the Chanute biplane hang glider and following aircraft ... and aviation.
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