The Hang Gliding Historical Committee is tasked with preserving and celebrating the rich history of hang gliding.

Re: Octave Chanute: Planes and Trains

Postby ARP » Wed May 04, 2016 9:54 am

RM:- " Good way to drive people off the site." What is ?

Chanute was a key player in the development of human flight. He acted as a clearing house for information on flight and passed it on to other pioneers including the Wright brothers. Hang gliding is not a modern phenomenon and even today the exploits of those early pioneers inspire present day interest in free flight.
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Re: Octave Chanute: Planes and Trains

Postby Rick Masters » Wed May 04, 2016 10:45 am

You forgot the part about trains.
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Re: Octave Chanute: Planes and Trains

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed May 04, 2016 11:42 am

Gentlemen,

I would guess the biggest thing driving some people away ... is me.    :oops:

Here are some other things that probably drive some people away:

     We are a hang gliding only organization
     We offer an alternative to their beloved USHPA
     We allow open criticism of USHPA and paragliding
     We allow some very unpopular people (like me) to post on our site
     We even have Bob Kuczewski on our Board of Directors!!    :crazy:

The good news is that the people who are driven away by their intolerance for any of those things ... are the people we probably don't want anyway.

Sometimes life works out nicely like that.      ;)
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Re: Octave Chanute: Planes and Trains

Postby ARP » Wed May 04, 2016 1:19 pm

RM:- "You forgot the part about trains."

As a form of transport trains have a lot going for them as a mass transport system especially in congested urban areas. For long haul and intercontinental travel then the aeroplane comes into it's own. I would prefer most travel in Europe to be by high speed train leaving more airspace for free flying. With 2-3 hour booking in times and flying to and from airports no where near your destination, the train beats the aeroplane, plus it goes door to door in less overall time than flying.

Chanute's engineering back ground was in railways and that engineering was used in the construction of his biplane in the form of truss bracing etc. Likewise Lilienthal run an engineering company which stood him in good stead in developing his gliders. Knowing the background of theses pioneers helps to understand them better which is not a bad thing.

A bit of background is helpful but I agree this is not a railway organisation so back to aviation matters.
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Re: Octave Chanute: Planes and Trains

Postby Rick Masters » Wed May 04, 2016 2:40 pm

My problem was coming to this thread and having my time wasted by a video that apparently had nothing to do with Octave Chanute.
This thread should not be started with such an obtuse post.
Obtuse posts drive people away.
A thread respectful of Chanute and useful to the curious would speak about him.
Information about Octave Chanute should be posted to the topic "Octave Chanute," not here.
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Re: Octave Chanute: Planes and Trains

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed May 04, 2016 6:34 pm

RickMasters wrote:My problem was coming to this thread and having my time wasted by a video that apparently had nothing to do with Octave Chanute.
This thread should not be started with such an obtuse post.
Obtuse posts drive people away.
A thread respectful of Chanute and useful to the curious would speak about him.
Information about Octave Chanute should be posted to the topic "Octave Chanute," not here.


It's hard to disagree with you there. I try to moderate as lightly as possible. That means that we have topics about many things that don't strictly fit in the forum where they're created. I have moved a few topics that I felt were pushing too far, but I've left others like this one in place. It's a judgement call, and I take full responsibility for making that call.

I apologize if the topic wasted your time.

For the record, if anyone feels that a particular topic should be moved, this is another responsibility that the Board can take up. While the Board is currently advisory, I will make the commitment to honor any majority votes by the Board to move topics. Making such a request of the Board would also be a good way to help us work out our procedures if you'd like to do so.

With regard to this particular topic, since it's in the "History" section, maybe we should have an official "Historical Committee" who can also decide what belongs in the history section or not. That would make it much like a Blog topic that's moderated by a committee rather than an individual.

Finally, these are all the growing pains of a growing organization. It's good to be able to have such problems and to work cooperatively to fix them. Thanks to everyone who's making the US Hawks a place where people even care about anything that's posted!!!
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Re: Octave Chanute: Planes and Trains

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed May 04, 2016 6:53 pm

Hi Again Rick,

Here's a proposed solution that might help. In the "Introduction and Purpose of this Forum" topic (within the Hang Gliding Historical Committee forum), I've added a suggestion that we assign stewardship of this subforum to the US Hawks "Hang Gliding Historical Committee". If there are volunteers willing to step up to be members of that Committee and provide moderation, then we can treat it as we do with our club forums.

How does that sound?
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Re: Octave Chanute: Planes and Trains

Postby dhmartens » Wed May 04, 2016 7:30 pm

According to wikipedia he used his railroad experience in aviation after he retired:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octave_Chanute
Octave Chanute began his training as a budding civil engineer in 1848.

He was widely considered brilliant and innovative in the engineering profession. During his career he designed and constructed the United States' two biggest stock yards, Chicago Stock Yards (1865) and Kansas City Stockyards (1871). He designed and built the Hannibal Bridge which was the first bridge to cross the Missouri River in Kansas City, Missouri, in 1869 and established Kansas City as the dominant city in the region. He designed many other bridges during his railroad career, including the Illinois River rail bridge at Chillicothe, Illinois,[3] the Genesee River Gorge rail bridge near Portageville, New York (now in Letchworth State Park), the bridge across the Missouri River at Sibley, Missouri, across the Mississippi River at Fort Madison, Iowa, and the Kinzua Bridge in Pennsylvania.

Pioneer in Wood Preservation[edit]
Chanute also established a procedure for pressure-treating wooden railroad ties with an antiseptic that increased the wood’s lifespan in the tracks. Establishing the first commercial plants, he convinced railroad men that it was commercially feasible to make money by spending money on treating ties to extend their service time and reduce replacement costs. As a way to track the age and longevity of railroad ties and other wooden structures, he also introduced the railroad date nail in the United States.

Chanute retired from the Erie Railway in 1883 to become an independent engineering consultant.

Aviation pioneer[edit]

Chanute first became interested in aviation watching a balloon take off in Peoria, IL, in 1856. When he retired from his railroad career in 1883, he decided to devote some leisure time to furthering the new science of aviation. Applying his engineering background, Chanute collected all available data from flight experimenters around the world and combined it with the knowledge gathered as a civil engineer in the past. He published his findings in a series of articles in The Railroad and Engineering Journal from 1891 to 1893, which were then re-published in the influential book Progress in Flying Machines in 1894.[6]
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Re: Octave Chanute: Planes and Trains

Postby JoeF » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:24 pm

Free's video start could be seen as a profound test of appreciation.
When I put "Chanute" and "planes and rail" and that video together, I get HIGH !
Chanute's rail engineering jumps out at me in that video. I see BOX cars and BOX KITES and Hargrave angels GOING UP HILL and down hill. Gravity is all about. The two rails remind of the two wings of the Chanute hang glider, remind of rails used in the testing of launching of Chanute biplanes. The box cars of the train can be visualized by me as sets of the boxes used by wing and wire to make the Chanute biplane hang glider. The profound choice by Free for that video invites equivalent profundity in seeing how deep Hargrave and Chanute and Herring and others influenced the development of airplanes via hang gliding. Free trusted perhaps that this forum might be up to the challenge of keen insightful artistic interface to hang gliding by his choice of video. The rails and bridges that permitted the BOX cars form a deep part of the Chanute gift to hang gliding, I am betting. I look at the railroad tracks and cars near my home and the planes of the sky and I am reminded of Chanute and his influence on planes and trains that structurally echo what one may see in the Chanute biplane boxy rail-like hang glider structure.

Thanks to :thumbup: ARP who just sent in :: "I recently found this video of Paul Dees flying his Chanute replica:- Chanute-Herring Biplane Glider Replica Flights" included here: Look in the video; see if you can see planes and trains when seeing the images of the Chanute-Herring biplane; see the separation (rail gauge) between the wings and between the LE and TE; see the transport of BOXES; see the structure of rail and box that brought powered planes the powered biplane; see the Wrights stemming in part from such rail-Chanute interface. Free posted something that could call the best of hang gliding history from readers; congratulations to USHawks forum for posting Free's video, this topic thread.
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Re: Octave Chanute: Planes and Trains

Postby eagle » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:24 pm

Ya ~ Radio Check ~ Lol ~
~ Did ya get that last message ~

Did ya get it.jpg
Did ya get it.jpg (38.47 KiB) Viewed 2644 times
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