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Re: Joe Faust

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:35 pm

Frank Colver wrote:Jack would not announce my banning, he would just cut me out without a word to the forum. That way he doesn't have to justify anything. I would find myself unable to sign in. A mysterious disappearance! :(

I think there are more people who know what's going on, but just don't think it's bad enough yet. They keep an eye on the U.S. Hawks, so they'd know you'd been banned. I think I know Jack pretty well after about a decade, and he'd feel compelled to come up with some reason. In the days before the U.S. Hawks, it was pretty easy for him to just make people disappear. It's not so easy anymore and that's why he desperately changes any links that point to the "free world". But the word gets around among the people who know what's going on.

Many of the pilots wanting to cling to hanggliding.org will try to tell themselves that Joe must have deserved it. Or they will try to come up with an "ends justifies the means" argument. That's a false dichotomy. The sport of hang gliding can have both a popular forum for pilots to speak and a fair forum for pilots to speak. People just need to demand it and be willing to walk away if they don't get it. It's as simple as that.

So did you decide how you would answer the racists who invited you to their party without the fictional African-American version of Joe? I think I know your answer, but I'd still like to hear your thoughts.
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Re: Joe Faust

Postby magentabluesky » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:47 pm

Paths of Glory

French soldiers fight the Germans in the battlefield of The Ant Hill, during World War I.



One-Hundred years ago this week my Grandfather was retiring from the British Military as a Captain stationed in Iraq. This was just weeks after the Ottoman Empire surrendered to the British at Mosul.

I am thankful by Grandfather made it out alive. My Grandfather was seven years old when Otto Liliental died and fourteen years old when the Wright Brothers flew their first powered flight at Kitty Hawk.

It is a miracle I am here and alive, and have had the pleasure to experience the joy of flight through Hang Gliding with my friends.
Last edited by magentabluesky on Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Joe Faust

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:02 pm

That's a great segment of video Michael.

The societies who trained their men to stand together in battle have almost always defeated the societies who trained their men to hide in fear ... all else being equal of course.

This topic is about Joe Faust, and this section is about Joe being banned from hanggliding.org. Will you stand up for Joe in the not-so-deadly "gun fire" of Jack Axoupolous?

When we look back, there will be those who stood strong and those who didn't. Unlike the fog of war, the record will be clear for all to see.
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Re: Joe Faust

Postby magentabluesky » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:13 pm

That is what my post was about too.

The interpretation depends on one's prospective.

(mike curb congregation - kelly's heroes)
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Re: Joe Faust

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:18 pm

It's time.

Joe's banning was the last straw.

We can all hear the whistle.
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Re: Joe Faust

Postby Frank Colver » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:37 pm

So did you decide how you would answer the racists who invited you to their party without the fictional African-American version of Joe? I think I know your answer, but I'd still like to hear your thoughts.

I already answered that question.

I find it interesting that as far as anyone knows, I am the only person who actually posted on HG.org, objecting to Joe's banishment and saying that Joe should be reinstated to the forum. My posting was there for a short time before being put in the basement and locked, I stood up for Joe, when no one else did, and I am the one being attacked by my friends as if I had done nothing. I did more than any of the banned people did, because they have no voice on HG.org, but I did and I used it. I also copied that posting to US Hawks so others would know what it said, even after it was scuttled on HG.org. It's sure a strange way I receive thanks for my solo effort on Joe's behalf. :?

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Re: Joe Faust

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:20 am

Please read the "Hero Hawks" topic Frank.

You'll find plenty of thanks there. I meant every word and I meant every salute.

I believe you're a very good man, and I believe Red is a good man. Jack has put you both in a situation where you're afraid to say what's on your mind. That's not the Frank Colver I've known for these past 7 years. And It's not the Red that I've known either. All of my prodding and pushing is just my way of trying to remind you both of the men I've come to know and respect.

I wouldn't waste my time if I didn't believe in both of you. I mean that sincerely and respectfully.

The evil in this situation is the low life who gives you the choice to either watch your friends be bullied or be bullied yourself. It's a no-win situation as long as you give him that power over you. The solution is to take away his power by speaking your mind and not caring what he does.

May the Force be with you.
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Re: Joe Faust

Postby magentabluesky » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:40 am

The most profound lesson to be learned from Joe and Frank from the early days of Hang Gliding is to share the joy, love, and passion for the sport. That is the message presented in "The Big Blue Sky". It was all about the love of flying, simply.
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Re: Joe Faust

Postby Rick Masters » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:24 am

I find it interesting that as far as anyone knows, I am the only person who actually posted on HG.org, objecting to Joe's banishment and saying that Joe should be reinstated to the forum. My posting was there for a short time before being put in the basement and locked, I stood up for Joe, when no one else did, and I am the one being attacked by my friends as if I had done nothing. I did more than any of the banned people did, because they have no voice on HG.org, but I did and I used it. I also copied that posting to US Hawks so others would know what it said, even after it was scuttled on HG.org. It's sure a strange way I receive thanks for my solo effort on Joe's behalf.

Hi Frank,
    While I appreciate your frustration with HG.org, I have long ago found that there is only one major forum on the Internet where issues critical to the future of the sport can be discussed fairly - and this is it, the US Hawks Forum. Other forum moderators use various methods of preventing discussions they don't wish to promote. One, of course, is outright banning without recourse. You are headed in this direction on HG.org if you keep pushing these issues. Then you will end up like Joe and me, unable to discuss these matters where many freeflight fliers choose to congregate.
    We are not myrtars. Martyrs actually die. We are just people who walked down the wrong dark alley and were mugged by those we thought were our friends. Yes, we have been wronged but it seems to me that instead of hanging out in that dark alleyway and complaining, it would serve our purpose better to build a tower with a beacon. Both Joe and I have done this. We are not without a voice.
    For many years, Joe has been operating Energy Kite Systems at http://www.energykitesystems.net/index.html and now the USHGRS rating system at http://www.ushgrs.org/ He has also made over 3,000 posts on the US Hawks Forum. Likewise, I built Comet Clones in response to the extraordinary numbers of paragliding deaths, now archived at https://web.archive.org/web/20120222011035/http://www.cometclones.com:80/mythology2011.htm and I have made a similar number of posts on the US Hawks Forum. All the posts to the US Hawks Forum made by Joe and me remain unaltered to this day and are all available for anyone to read. With such a remarkable forum in place, it reflects poorly on those who flock to what I refer to as the nanny doppelganger forums, where significant posts often disappear at the whim of owners and self-rightous moderators obsessed with the social engineering of their threads.
    So while I wish you well in your efforts to see how long your posts will remain up on HG.org, please forgive me if I choose not to participate.
Rick Masters: Dangerous Thoughts    USHGA #30816  EAA #1269264     US Hang Gliding Rating System
A lot of foolish people think they're hang gliding with parachutes - but nobody ever thinks they're parachuting with hang gliders.
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Re: Joe Faust

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:17 am

I believe Rick has struck the right note. It's about building a tower with a beacon. It's a beacon of freedom. Jack knows that. That's why he makes intentional and calculated moves to obscure that beacon.

The U.S. Hawks is also about democracy. Frank, you voted against my motion that we ask USHPA to use their rating system. You were in the majority, and I have honored the outcome of that vote to this very day even though I disagreed. Where is your vote on hanggliding.org? It's in the basement with a threat to ban you if you speak up about it again. Is that what you want to build and support?

I know that you and Red just want to participate in happy hang gliding talk. You want to post about your swing seat and your trainer and your vario. It's all very fun. But every happy post you make on hanggliding.org builds Jack's empire and gives him more power to bully people like Joe. That's the inconvenient truth here, and everyone can see it.

But you're a smart man Frank. You've accomplished a lot in your life. You played an important role at Dockweiler (remember that I even changed the entire tone of my own presentation on your advice). So I'm going to withdraw my criticism and take a 'wait and see" approach. Maybe you're working on an angle that none of us have considered. I'm willing to watch and wait. At this time I think your course is just building Jack's empire and rubbing salt into the wounds of those who've been banned. And at this point I think your course degrades your own stature by allowing yourself to be muzzled by a punk dictator like Jack. But time will tell. I am willing to be wrong. I am especially willing to be wrong if it ends up helping Joe and USHGRS.

Go forth and work your magic. We'll be watching and waiting to see what happens.
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