[Rick Masters]

That should help the popularity of hang gliding.
The thing about dark sites is that after a while, nobody misses them because they are just stroking each other in the dark.
Real HG pilots should be pissed off - all their efforts to create a public history, turned off.

[Bob Kuczewski]

It's hard to know what's going on at hanggliding.org because Jack Axaopoulos ("sg") does whatever he wants whenever he wants.

The same is true of Davis Straub at Oz and every other national hang gliding (and paragliding) forum that I'm aware of. They're all a bunch of little fifedoms with no board of directors and no sense of due process.

That's what we're trying to do differently here, and I very much appreciate those - like yourself - who are making it work.

My guess is that Jack Axaopoulos will continue to make sweeping and arbitrary changes whenever he wants. Anyone who disagrees is on thin ice. Jack's arbitrary banning of Scott and myself is a perfect example. Jack wrote:

If anyone has an issue with this, just walk out the door. Dont threaten it, dont announce it, just walk out. Any such political nonsense will be deleted. Just leave instead.

Then, after warning everyone not to challenge him ... he gloats that he's only gotten positive feedback:

By sg-  Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:39 pm#207432
I worry every time I see my PM notification, and then after I read it, just more and MORE support from everyone thanking me for getting rid of these people.

Gee, what does he expect after warning everyone not to make a peep? And if anyone did object, we'd never know it because he said right there that it would be deleted.   

As you've said Rick, hang gliding isn't dying, it's being murdered.

[eagle]

Another ORG.png (6.68 KiB) Viewed 6964 times

Pilot proficiency, Certification and Rating System
In USA and Canada hang gliding is considered a self regulating sport and does not require any official license as far as the government and law is concerned. Technically that means that nothing is stopping you from taking a hang glider and jumping off a cliff.

Practically speaking however almost all flying sites require a pilot to be a member and his skills certified by a national organization in that country. In USA this organization is USHPA and in Canada it’s HPAC. These organizations will issue ratings to pilots based on pre-established criteria which takes into account both pilot’s experience and skills.

Ratings are issued sequentially:
H1 – Beginner
H2 – Novice
H3 – Intermediate
H4 – Advanced
H5 – Master

Flying sites will usually post pilot rating requirements that pilots must have in order to be able to fly there. Practically speaking you gain access to fly unsupervised at most sites at Intermediate rating (H3). H5 is mostly a gimmick as no site requires an H5 to fly there.
The requirements for gaining different ratings in the two countries are different, with Canada requiring more than double the experience necessary to achieve certain ratings vs. USA. For a list of requirements see the following:
USHPA Pilot Proficiency System
HPAC Pilot Ratings

THE DARK SIDE
When a Private Business Monopoly takes over and charges to use Free Airspace
Technically, Our self regulating sport does not require any official license as far as the government and law is concerned.
So nobody should be charging you or stopping you from taking a Hang Glider or a Paraglider and jumping off a cliff or mountain.

USHPA Pilot Proficiency System & Maybe the HPAC Pilot Ratings
Have lost their integrity mainly when they went from being a Normal Club to Racketeers,
Dictators with iffy instructors demanding payment to Fly Free public sites

P.S. LOL,... who is Jack Applesauce

[Rick Masters]

As you've said Rick, hang gliding isn't dying, it's being murdered.

      Welcome to hang gliding's secret society: Hanggliding.org meets the Oz Report.

[eagle]

illegal.jpg (8.14 KiB) Viewed 6947 times

Ah, You didn't read the fine print

Illegal City Contract.jpg (18.22 KiB) Viewed 6947 times

Apparently No More Voluntary Club site fee's, with your opinion
Its Mandatory & shut up while under a threat, $10 a day pass disguised as site fee's. into their private city cartel leaseholder accounts
They will start a fight about it, Then use a violence/trespassing law against the people

This Is Extortion By Public Office
Public/Recreational pilots monies into private accounts for every unknowingly American or visitor

Read the fine print ~ there's a list of other Association problems, like unneeded insurance requirements & fee's

[Bob Kuczewski]

P.S. LOL,... who is Jack Applesauce

Jack Axaopoulos ( "Applesauce" ) is the operator of hanggliding.org, and he uses Search Engine Optimization (SEO) tactics - along with intimidation - to keep his site "#1" (as he likes to advertise). For example, the whole idea behind the world wide web is that sites can link to other sites. But Jack has set up his software to automatically change any link to our site (ushawks.org) into something else (typically "loserville.org"). Go ahead and try it for yourself. Create an account on hanggliding.org and make a few posts so you can post links. Then make a post that includes ozreport.com and ushawks.org. You will find that ushawks.org is instantly changed. You might even get banned for trying it.

The decline of hang gliding is at least partially attributable to the two major forums - hanggliding.org and ozreport.com. Both have established policies that divide the community in order to further their own (often personal) objectives.

They have each contributed to the demise of hang gliding by pandering to USHPA's monopoly in order to get a seat at the table. They have each silenced some of the most dedicated hang gliding pilots to further their own goals.

In my opinion, the names of Jack Axaopoulos and Davis Straub should go down in history as major contributors to the decline of hang gliding.

With regard to Rick's original post, I can attest that I've also been unable to view the hanggliding.org forum without being logged in. But the results have varied, so Jack may be playing games with his ability to show or hide the forum to various people. It's just more evidence that people are investing their efforts building Jack's personal empire with no assurance of fairness at all.

[wingspan33]

Hi All,

I just saw this thread and went to check out the "dark" HG.Org. Well, the main (Front) page is stark without the usual "most recent" thread topics. But if you click on the forum link at the top of the page you can see/read anything you like. It's pretty obvious you have to be a member to post, but that's true anywhere.


You may want to check out this link - http://forum.hanggliding.org/ - to see for yourself.

Jack Applesauce has changed the look of things since I last visited, but it's still the same HG.org. Major difference being the new opaque front door (to Jack Ax's "living room").

[Rick Masters]

Yeah, I can read it now.
But it asked for a password, like the Oz Report, and wouldn't let me view the forum when I made the original post here so something changed.
It's better to have it open even if the pilots who post there can't think for themselves and need someone with a personal agenda to censor their posts for them.
You don't have to be there long to figure out what's going on.

[brianscharp]

You'll have to reset your password. After that it's business as usual, kinda.
http://forum.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=35441
You do need to be logged in to view Incident Reports, but nobdy cares about those anyway, 'cept lawyers of course.
http://forum.hanggliding.org/viewforum.php?f=24

You do not have the required permissions to read topics within this forum.

[Rick Masters]

You do need to be logged in to view Incident Reports, but nobdy cares about those anyway, 'cept lawyers of course.

Most spincident reports are overrated.
----------
Spincident Report
    A spincident report is an "official" analysis of a paraglider accident, guided by lawyers, with the prior intent to lay blame on the pilot, thereby maintaining the fiction that a paraglider is a full-time consumer sport aircraft rather than a dangerously modified parachute that should only be flown by professional stuntmen. (See Universal Paraglider Design Flaw - UPDF)
    An associated type of spincident report is the analysis of a hang glider accidents by paraglider pilots designated as investigators by paraglider pilots running incorporated hang gliding associations which they have taken over. These spincident reports are written with the prior intent of falsely presenting hang gliding as being as dangerous or more dangerous than paragliding under the same conditions.
    Those authorized by their corporations to issue spincident reports consider themselves vastly more capable of describing and determining the cause of accidents than, say, the actual witnesses who were present. No disagreement with their conclusions is allowed by the corporation and all who read a spincident report are required to quote it verbatim and nod sagely with respect and admiration of the superior knowledge possessed by the anointed and properly chosen investigators.

The term spincident report was entered into the lexicon of paragliding and hang gliding by Rick Masters on the US Hawks Forum on June 26, 2017.