Personal Journals about Hang Gliding

Re: Universal Paragliding Design Flaw (UPDF)

Postby choppergirl » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:14 pm

Sometimes the best inventions come from those whom you least expect anything at all from.

I know about as much about a paragliding wing as Hedy Lamarr maybe knew at first about radio waves.

That being said...

I'm not saying go out and start sliding in "off the shelf" fiberglass tent poles willy-nilly into sleves you sew into your paraglider wing.

But they are a good visual example of an widely familiar idea that is light weight, springy and flexible, and can be broken down quickly into a compact package that can fit in a bundle. Anyone who's ever set up a modern personal tent is familiar with the fiberglass sticks I'm talking about, how they break down, how light they are, and how they can really flex to some extreme curves but still want to spring back to straight. They do keep tents from collapsing, and yet still remaining flexible, in some serious wind.

I would say, look at how your wing collapse in these scenarios you are familiar with, and what could be added where, and at what place where the collapse begins, that would prevent a catastrophic collapse. Would that be the leading edge? I myself don't know. A paragliding expert would know. Would this be the only place you'd need it, for maximum gain? Or would you also need it in the trailing edge? Do you need two of them in the middle connecting both leading and trailing edges (kind of like an H pattern with double cross bars)? How flexible and springy should your tube be, and how to determine a close to optimal tube diameter and thickness? How lightweight do you want them to be, so that it doesn't impact significantly the way your wing flies? What parts do you want to be able to collapse under user control, to do the tricks and maneuvers you guys do by pulling on your strings? Should the stick thin towards those points, or not exist there at all. And so on.

Since these sticks are very springy, flexible, and bendable, I don't think you'd be making a hang glider wing... you'd still be pretty much flying a parachute, like the ones with inflatable edges. But it would be a parachute that has some lightweight structural members that want to keep it in some resting open shape, or spring it back to some shape.

Pull out a fishing rod from your garage and play around with it, as a small scale model that has varying diameters all along its length. Something like a foam "Pool Noodle" is another lightweight flexy example, that wants to spring back to it's original shape, but considerably thicker.

On light sport and homebuilt airplanes, they use thick springy solid fiberglass landing gear sometimes, for it's strength, springiness, and lightweightness.

When I was younger, I was so dead set in my opinions and thought in black and white; my mom once told me, be flexible like a reed in the wind, and you won't break. Like the stem of a grain of wheat swaying two and fro in the wind. Think like that, like a hollow reed... strong, yet flexy. (I didn't heed my mom's advice, but that's beside the point. I still think I'm right, all the time, even when I'm wrong :-) ).

Test my "Choppergirl's Reed" idea; if anyone adopts it and it turns out to save just one life in the future, I'll be tickled. :) It's not like I invented fiberglass rods... mother nature, really should get the credit.

If the idea on the other hand turns out to not have any merit at all, then toss the idea in the waste bin... no love lost and no egos bruised. Someone with idle time explore it, try it, test it (preferably in a controlled environment/scenario with a dummy pilot load)... and should it work, adopt it. If it works really good and turns out a worthwhile upgrade for all the trouble involved, spread it and preach it, yada yada.
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Re: Universal Paragliding Design Flaw (UPDF)

Postby ARP » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:30 am

Choppergirl,

As already said by Rick the wing is intentionally allowed to collapse to prevent it overflying the pilot if he/she has become weightless due to turbulence. If this were not to happen the wing would dive as it is only pitch stable with the weight of the pilot below. Carbon or glass fibre and pneumatic tubes have been tried before but the wing ends up under the pilot. The only thing to stop this would be to make the suspension lines rigid as well and then you have reinvented the hang glider.

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Re: Universal Paragliding Design Flaw (UPDF)

Postby msoaring » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:23 am

Choppergirl, one thing I really like about this forum is that anyone can post interesting ideas/concepts, and raise intrigue regarding designs, past and future. Sometimes this process creates solutions to problems, which, do not always have obvious solutions. There are some great, open minded, thinkers on this website.
Again, thanks for posting you ideas.
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Re: Universal Paragliding Design Flaw (UPDF)

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:42 am

We are very fortunate to have such depth of experience, history, creativity, and curiosity.

msoaring wrote:Choppergirl, one thing I really like about this forum is that anyone can post interesting ideas/concepts, and raise intrigue regarding designs, past and future. Sometimes this process creates solutions to problems, which, do not always have obvious solutions. There are some great, open minded, thinkers on this website.
Again, thanks for posting you ideas.
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org
View my rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System
Every human at every point in history has an opportunity to choose courage over cowardice. Look around and you will find that opportunity in your own time.
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Re: Universal Paragliding Design Flaw (UPDF)

Postby ARP » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:54 pm

"RAST
Postby ARP » Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:32 pm

Ram Air Section Technology:- https://vimeo.com/155841594

It may not be the solution to the problem, just yet, but it does show an awareness of it and willingness to try and remedy it.

The cynics amongst us might just say it is a ploy to deceive the punters that PG's can be safe. On the other hand if the system has merit then it should be applauded as a first step to achieving a better safety record!ARP "

Re-posted from another thread as it shows that the PG community is looking for solutions to the UPDF
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Re: Universal Paragliding Design Flaw (UPDF)

Postby Rick Masters » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:30 pm

Or...
Sometimes this process creates additional layers of problems for problems which do not have any solutions at all.
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Re: Universal Paragliding Design Flaw (UPDF)

Postby Rick Masters » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:03 am

January 23, 2017
In a comment at the end of a short article on the death of Peter Blanchard, a Brit who had just arrived in Nepal for a paragliding vacation, and the one-thousand-five-hundred-forty-second paragliding fatality that I know of, the journalist writes in The Himalayan newspaper:

Of late, stakeholders had raised questions about safety of this sport activity, which is popular among both foreign and domestic tourists.
http://thehimalayantimes.com/nepal/briton-dies-falling-off-paraglider-pokhara/

What's all the fuss about?

Peter Blanchard - January 23, 2017
Shailendra Pahad - November 4, 2016
Sunil Bhattarai - November 7, 2015
Dragos Pirte - February 4, 2015
soaring parachutist from South Korea - January 22, 2015
Premek Hulek - March 13, 2014
Young Min Ham - December 7, 2013
Joyriding passenger from China - October 2, 2013
Keppeng Kwan - November 16, 2010
Alexander Kirdyashkin - February 25, 2010
Christoph Andreas Sattler January 30, 2010

and this: http://progorod43.ru/news/22692
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Re: Universal Paragliding Design Flaw (UPDF)

Postby Rick Masters » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:27 am

January 21, 2017
Great advice for soaring parachutists from Paragliding Forum:

Image    Image
Carry heavy duty pain killers!
http://www.paraglidingforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=82811

After all, who needs an airframe when you have oxycontin?     :o
Don't leave home without it.
(I never in my life heard of hang glider pilots doing this. Is it for before they take off or after they land - or both?)     :shock:
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Re: Universal Paragliding Design Flaw (UPDF)

Postby Rick Masters » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:27 am

Paragliding fatality #1544        February 3, 2017
This arrived from France this morning:
"Il semblerait que sa voile se soit mise en boule suite à un coup de vent, ce qui l'a violemment fait chuter au sol."
"His sail was put in a ball after a gust of wind, which caused it to fall violently to the ground."
http://www.estrepublicain.fr/faits-divers/2017/02/02/accident-de-parapente-mortel
It no doubt came as a big surprise.
"Sacre bleu! My wonderful paraglider has turned into deadly laundry... SPLAT!!"          :o
Hang glider pilots don't have surprises like this because the air frame holds the airfoil shape of the glider's wing during the inevitable encounters with normal atmospheric turbulence.
You would think one would have to look far and wide to find anyone who couldn't understand this simple fact.
But the same day, another soaring parachutist in Tennerife broke a leg and his back, according to another report, light on details.
In paragliding, breaking one's leg and back is usually done by falling at high velocity on a primarily vertical vector - generally following a stall/collapse at landing or a collapse in turbulence.
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Re: Universal Paragliding Design Flaw (UPDF)

Postby Rick Masters » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:26 am

Paragliding    April 12, 2017
Image
Paragliding fatality #1558

Mt Brace Outdoor Club.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1154829 ... 9/?fref=nf

Joachim Roesler wrote:
Local paraglider pilot Varick Stringham suffered a fatal paragliding accident yesterday at Mt. Brace. The crash happened around 2 pm near launch, with no other pilots in the air or on the mountain. Eyewitness reports indicate that Varick experienced a large collapse shortly after launch, at an altitude of a few hundred feet above the ridge of the mountain. Weather conditions at the time were challenging at best and will be the subject of a follow up report.
Varick was a generous, self confident and valued member of the Brace flying community. He contributed a lot of his time and energy to the club and its facilities, always fun to be around. Varick will be sorely missed. Our thoughts go out to his two young daughters and loved ones.
---------
WARNING
Paragliders have no airframe and can lose their airfoil shape in perfectly normal atmospheric turbulence.
The "pilot" suddenly becomes a helpless falling human and plummets to the earth from a great height, often being maimed or killed.
The USHPA equates this risk to hang gliding, which is a lie, because hang gliders cannot lose their airfoil shape in perfectly normal atmospheric turbulence.
Paragliding carries additional risks such as the possibility of collapse or locked-in spiral dives, lack of penetration and loss of control from causes unique to parachutes.
The problem has been documented extensively here
http://web.archive.org/web/20120422065158/http://www.cometclones.com/mythology2012.htm

Image
The Paraglider Dead Man's Curve
Paraglider pilots must fly within this zone of no recourse during takeoff and landing. That is twice during every flight where their lives hang on fate – where they bet their lives nothing will go wrong. This situation does not exist in any other branch of aviation except for helicopters near hover.
Paraglider deaths and severe injuries occur from entering this zone in three ways.
The first is experiencing a full or partial collapse within the zone. If the collapse cannot be recovered in time, death or injury is a common result. This sounds like what happened to Varick Stringham.
The second is entering the zone in a spiral dive.
The third is entering the zone at terminal velocity under full billowing collapse or where the pilot has fallen inside the sail during wild oscillations.
Note that the effective deployment altitude varies with the speed of entry.
My observations are not shared by the paragliding community.

From the perspective of a pilot, the paraglider presents the possibility that the aircraft will stop being an aircraft IN THE AIR while the hang glider will always remain an aircraft during the entire flight. Both sports are dangerous but the hang glider provides the pilot with a fighting chance to survive turbulence and the ability to minimize his risk through experience and skill. If a paraglider collapses within the PDMC, luck rather than skill and experience becomes the deciding factor. I did not realize this when I began researching paragliding accidents in 2009. But when the Paraglider Dead Man's Curve became apparent to me, I was obligated, due to my historical standing, to comment.
See http://ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2636&sid=ad2947c78e27867ccc24a16b28b6830d&sid=332eb2a85bc83ad205c3716967e4dd69#p19259

I sometimes use the analogy of a slow Volkswagen without brakes as the paraglider and a Ferrari in perfect condition as the hang glider. If the Ferrari just follows the Volkswagen around the country, sooner or later they will cross a mountain and the Volkswagen will careen out of control and crash descending the grade. There will be nothing the driver can do to save himself. The Ferrari will, of course, continue happily on its journey. Later on, the Ferrari may wrap itself around a telephone pole at 160 mph. This will have been due to a serious error on the part of the driver. However, this does not happen to Volkswagens.

Drivers of Volkswagens without brakes may justify what they do by showing that drivers of Ferraris get killed. But does such a comparison actually mean anything?

So again, as a pilot, if I choose to participate in a dangerous sport, I need to know that I will be in control. That is the over-riding concern. I need to know that I can increase my chance of survival by being the best I can be. Every aircraft with an airframe presents this opportunity. Soaring parachutes do not.
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