Personal Journals about Hang Gliding

Re: Rick Masters: Superiority of Hang Gliders

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:07 pm

I don't fully agree with the modifications I've made here, but I just wanted to highlight the similarities between 1981 and today:

It is now obvious that the honorable task which the USHGA took on several years ago, that of shepherding the paragliding craze through its infancy, has been successfully accomplished. The time is overdue for the representative organization of those who practice the art of hang gliding, the USHGA, to regain its focus and return exclusively to the pursuit of its original purpose.

Two powerful factors are working to estrange the USHGA from its defined path. The first is economic. The market potential for paragliding aircraft is much greater than for hang gliders. Predictably, the flying industry is rushing to fill this need. Caught up in this rush are a great many of those who are responsible for guiding hang gliding through the years to its present astounding level of accomplishment. Now blind with enthusiasm, they tend to pressure the USHGA down a different road.

The second factor has to do with the desires that motivate people to fly. Paragliding aircraft provide the pilot with deceptively easy airtime and deceptively easy training. The majority of paragliding pilots have no desire for hang gliding flight. Even some hang glider pilots are turning to paragliding. Boating through the sky, forever on the edge of collapse, they choose to look at hang gliding the way snowboarders look at skiing - with disdain and a begrudging tolerance. Blind with enthusiasm, they would take the USHGA with them.

It is indeed a sorry day that I must remind the members and officers of the USHGA, and the staff of its publication, Hang Gliding Magazine, what hang gliding is.

Hang gliding is the most natural form of flight. Our wings are solid and maneuverable. Airspeed selection holds great meaning to us. We challenge the wind to games of skill. When we win, our rewards are airtime, distance and tremendous exhilaration. We desire the serenity of the sky. We are a breed apart.

Get paragliding out of the USHGA or get the USHGA out of hang gliding!
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Re: Rick Masters: Superiority of Hang Gliders

Postby Rick Masters » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:45 pm

Yes, the similarities are profound. But I would have to say that

the most natural form of flight


for a human being is falling off a cliff, which makes a helpless falling human attached to a collapsed paraglider the most natural form of flight. Luckily for we hang glider pilots, improvements have been made. Still, there are those who prefer the most natural form of flight...
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Re: Rick Masters: Superiority of Hang Gliders

Postby wingspan33 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:56 pm

RickMasters wrote:Yes, the similarities are profound. But I would have to say that

the most natural form of flight


for a human being is falling off a cliff, which makes a helpless falling human attached to a collapsed paraglider the most natural form of flight. Luckily for we hang glider pilots, improvements have been made. Still, there are those who prefer the most natural form of flight...



:srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl:

I really am rolling on the floor!
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Re: Rick Masters: Superiority of Hang Gliders

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:01 am

RickMasters wrote:Yes, the similarities are profound. But I would have to say that
the most natural form of flight

for a human being is falling off a cliff, which makes a helpless falling human attached to a collapsed paraglider the most natural form of flight.

Ditto what Wingspan said ...

:srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl: :srofl:
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Re: Rick Masters: Superiority of Hang Gliders

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:30 pm

:idea: :idea: :idea:    I just had an important insight into the combined HG/PG Association issue.    :idea: :idea: :idea:

It's an undeniable fact that hang gliding is a tiny sport. Furthermore, the significance of hang gliding in the world is about the same whether we're 5,000 hang glider pilots on our own or 10,000 hang glider and paraglider pilots in a mixed organization. A tiny speck is still a tiny speck ... even if it is doubled.

So whether we're 5,000 hang glider pilots or 10,000 hang glider and paraglider pilots makes almost no difference with regard to our survival in a world measured in billions of people.

HOWEVER ... within our own association, it makes a HUGE difference if hang gliding is 100% of the membership or 45% of the membership. That difference - in that context - means everything.

So why should we give up something very very important (our ability to control 100% of our own organization) in order to get something almost unnoticable (the difference between 5,000 and 10,000 total pilots in a world of billions of people)?

Does anyone have a good answer for that question?
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Re: Rick Masters: Superiority of Hang Gliders

Postby Rick Masters » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:00 pm

What have the public liability claims looked like for the past ten years?
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Re: Rick Masters: Superiority of Hang Gliders

Postby JoeF » Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:58 am

What sector is the best bet for insurance underwriters, the PG sector or HG sector?
If the HG sector can be shown to be the better bet, the insurance landscape might change more easily.

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Re: Rick Masters: Superiority of Hang Gliders

Postby Rick Masters » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:18 pm

Joe, its hard to believe but there are gaps of nine years in the U$hGA PG and HG Accident Reports that prevent comparisons from being made. Is this intentional? Members should have spoken up long before now. (Some of the links deliver no pages and many others do not exist or seem to have been removed.)
http://ushpa.aero/safety.asp#accidentreports

2005 seems to be the latest report, other than the 2014 Fatality Report, from which a comparison can be drawn. In 2005, there were 3 PG fatalities in the USA but no HG fatalities. Joe Gregor wrote a report that took the place of our traditional USHGA fatality and accident reports, stating a desire to "lead us away from the bi-monthly ‘fatality report’ that this column has unfortunately fallen into, misleading many lay readers into concluding that hang gliding is synonymous with insane risk and near certain death." Of course, our traditional accident reports were written for association members, not lay people. And it is ridiculous to think that lay people come to the U$hPA - what they do is read the newspapers. These reports were initiated by USGHA's first Accident Chairman Robert Wills, Sr., an insurance industry expert, and were continued in the same impeccable fashion by Doug Hildreth, who once wrote me, in a moment of despair, that I seemed to be "the only one who cared" about his efforts. These reports were effective in making hang glider pilots and hang gliding manufacturers improve their art by providing a real look into what was going on in the sport. To me, it is unbelievable to see their work disparaged in this way. It looks to me that around 2005, fatality and injury reporting became a public relations exercise and honest reporting took a nosedive. If I were a U$hPA member, I would run, not walk, to the nearest exit.

When I ask

What have the public liability claims looked like for the past ten years?


my intent is twofold.

First, members of the association should know exactly how many incidents cost what amount of money to their insurer. It is their association and this information is very important to ensure everyone is treated fairly.

Just what is an association? An association is formed when a group of people formally agree to do something together. But they do not and cannot agree to withhold information from certain members. In fact, when I incorporated the XCPA (Cross Country Pilots Association) as a nonprofit in 1983, the books were required by the articles of incorporation to be available to any member. I think you U$hPA members are perhaps deliberately being kept in the dark because the more dangerous segment of the U$hPA - paragliding and speedflying - finds advantage in concealing this information.

Second, knowledge of liability claims is important because the USHGA has been absorbed by parachuting - a much more dangerous activity. My research indicates that public liability incidents in paragliding (where a member of the public is injured by a soaring parachutist) far outweigh any involving hang gliding. If this is correct, hang glider pilots are carrying a disproportionate burden of liability insurance costs by being lumped in with parachuting. Paragliding has benefited from this by absorbing a safer sport. It might be a good idea to look into this. Who knows, maybe HG could be insured for a lot less.

Have a look here, first.
http://ushpa.aero/safety/fatality_report_2014.pdf

Again, injuries and accidents have no bearing on public liability insurance other than to indicate the relative safety of one sport to another.
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Re: Rick Masters: Superiority of Hang Gliders

Postby JoeF » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:19 pm

http://ushpa.aero/safety/fatality_report_2013.pdf

http://www.ushpa.aero/safety.asp#accidentreports Rick, does this page reflect your comment? There seems to be HG report for 2007 and 2013.

http://www.ushpa.aero/safety/HG2007AccidentSummary.pdf

Silence seems to be on HG for 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012. Does not match your seeing?

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Re: Rick Masters: Superiority of Hang Gliders

Postby Rick Masters » Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:20 pm

http://ushpa.aero/safety/fatality_report_2013.pdf
Incomplete. That's only seven months. Note that Henry Ho's fatal accident at Imperial Beach is not mentioned because he was not a U$hPA member. (I don't think he was wearing a powerpak but let me know if he was.) Likewise for Walden Grindle at Mt. St. Helena.

http://www.ushpa.aero/safety.asp#accidentreports
Rick, does this page reflect your comment? There seems to be HG report for 2007 and 2013.


2007 is incomplete: "...we summarize those accidents reported during 2007 that have not been described
in our earlier columns."


http://www.ushpa.aero/safety/HG2007AccidentSummary.pdf
Silence seems to be on HG for 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012. Does not match your seeing?


Its pathetic. Why can't they suppla a simple chart listing PG and HG fatalities from the beginning? I KNOW YOU WOULD BE STUNNED. You can't make a comparison without complete information. No mention of accidents outside U$hPA membership. No mention of fatalities or injuries to U$hPA members flying outside the US. But wouldn't it be better for members to at least be told about these so they could work to improve the safety of their sport by bringing outsiders into the association, if that's what it takes?

I see it like this. You can bring in all the new hang glider pilots you want. HG accidents are for the great part pilot error so, with training, fatalities can be kept down regardless of how many members there are.

BUT...

Paragliding accidents and fatalities have to do with lack of control inherent in a pendulum aircraft lacking pitch control. Most PG accidents are associated with collapse, which appears to me to be almost entirely random during inland flying. All paragliding accidents and fatalities are A LINEAR FUNCTION of the number of paragliders active in the association. This means that the more who join, the greater numbers of accidents and fatalities will occur, irregardless of training.

SO...

Diluting the numbers of dangerous paragliders with safer hang gliders

1) makes paragliding appear safer than it really is and
2) makes paragliding appear more responsible
3) attracts more newbies to paragliding instead of hang gliding
4) makes paragliding easier to insure.

The way I see it, the participation of a hang glider pilots in a parachuting organization has negative consequences. You are being taken advantage of and the sport of hang gliding is suffering because of it.
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