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Little Hawk at UCSD (September 2012)

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:36 am

Willy and I took Little Hawk to UCSD for some local outreach ...

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We started with a few demonstration flights (no harness)

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Then it was "hands on" for the students ...

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Finally, I demonstrated the harness with the glider ...

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It was a fun day.      :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Re: Little Hawk at UCSD (September 2012)

Postby majiemae » Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:09 pm

Was this done yesterday - during the Santa Ana? It was certainly a perfect day for it - great photos! :thumbup:

I'm so glad to see Little Hawk having such a great time. Every time I see it - it makes the work that was done on it all worth while! :)

Congrats!!
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Re: Little Hawk at UCSD (September 2012)

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:24 pm

majiemae wrote:Was this done yesterday - during the Santa Ana?

Yes. But the winds in that part of the campus are pretty switchy anyway because it's surrounded by trees and buildings. That's another advantage for Little Hawk - a larger glider might be difficult to control in those conditions.

Also, I had to replace one of the golf club shafts used for the tip wands. It had been broken by a pilot at Funston who let it "nose dive" into the ground. One of the few design problems with Little Hawk is that its control bar is fairly far back (behind the double surface) which means that there can be more wing area in front of the control frame than behind it. So when the nose goes down, the greater force (on that greater surface area) can tend to drive the nose of the glider downward. Whack!!

That's another thing to consider for anyone considering building their own version of Little Hawk. Be sure there's enough wing surface behind the CG to keep it stable in high winds.
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Re: Little Hawk at UCSD (September 2012)

Postby wingspan33 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:47 pm

What a great piece of outreach equipment! Too bad our everyday hang gliders aren't that small and lightweight.

I wonder what wind speeds Little Hawk would need to develop enough lift to "fly" a typical adult pilot. Less than Jet Stream speeds I hope. ;)
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Re: Little Hawk at UCSD (September 2012)

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:33 pm

wingspan33 wrote:What a great piece of outreach equipment!

Thanks Scott!!

Margie (and a whole lot of other people) deserve a lot of credit for helping with the project.

wingspan33 wrote:I wonder what wind speeds Little Hawk would need to develop enough lift to "fly" a typical adult pilot. Less than Jet Stream speeds I hope. ;)

OK, let me put on my aeronautical engineering hat along with my 2 years of wind tunnel experience ...

The lift generated by a wing is represented as follows:

    Lift = q x CL x SW

    where CL is the Coefficient of Lift (a dimensionless quantity that captures all the nasty aerodynamic details)
    where SW is the Wing Surface (in square feet, for example)
    and where q is the "Dynamic Pressure" which is equal to 1/2 x rho x velocity x velocity
        In this last equation...
            rho is the density of the air
            velocity x velocity is "v squared" (which I cannot easily represent in this forum).

OK, now we're ready to figure it out. Let's say that this thing is going to be flying me, and so the lift that it generates must equal the same lift that my Falcon 195 generates (since I weigh the same regardless of which glider I'm flying). But Little Hawk is 65 square feet while my Falcon is 195 square feet, so that's a factor of 3 times smaller. So let's write the two equations for the two gliders.

    For my Falcon: Bob's weight = Lift = qFalcon x CLFalcon x SWFalcon
    For Little Hawk: Bob's weight = Lift = qLittleHawk x CLLittleHawk x SWLittleHawk

Since Bob's weight is the same in either case, we can equate those two equations (ignoring the difference in the weight of the gliders):

    qFalcon x CLFalcon x SWFalcon = qLittleHawk x CLLittleHawk x SWLittleHawk

Now if we assume that they both have the same Coefficient of Lift (which they would if they were scaled versions of each other rather than being a single surface compared to a double surface) then we can just use CL for both sides of the equation:

    qFalcon x CL x SWFalcon = qLittleHawk x CL x SWLittleHawk

Since CL is known to be non-zero, we can divide both sides by CL to get:

    qFalcon x SWFalcon = qLittleHawk x SWLittleHawk

But we know that the surface of the Falcon is 3 times the surface of Little Hawk, so we can substitute as follows:

    qFalcon x 3 x SWLittleHawk = qLittleHawk x SWLittleHawk

Again, since we know that SWLittleHawk is non-zero, we can divide both sides by that value to get:

    qFalcon x 3 = qLittleHawk

Now we can plug in the equation for Dynamic Pressure ("q") for each wing to get:

    1/2 x rho x velocityFalcon x velocityFalcon x 3 = 1/2 x rho x velocityLittleHawk x velocityLittleHawk

Of course, we can divide out the 1/2 and the "rho" since both are non-zero to get:

    velocityFalcon x velocityFalcon x 3 = velocityLittleHawk x velocityLittleHawk

Now we can switch both sides (since we're looking for velocityLittleHawk) to get:

    velocityLittleHawk x velocityLittleHawk = 3 x velocityFalcon x velocityFalcon

Now we can take the square root of each side to get:

    velocityLittleHawk = squareroot(3) x velocityFalcon

The square root of 3 is about 1.73, so that means that the speeds for Little Hawk would be about 1.73 times the speeds of my Falcon.

So the real key to remember here is that the lifting capacity of a wing goes up as the SQUARE of the velocity. That's why a 20mph wind on launch is 4 times more difficult to deal with than a 10mph wind. The forces go up as the SQUARE of the velocity. But the forces only go up linearly with the wing surface. So if you cut the wing surface in half, the speed would go up as the square root of 2. But if you cut the wing surface by 3, then the speed goes up as the square root of 3.

I hope that answers the question. Sorry for all the math. :oops:
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Re: Little Hawk at UCSD (September 2012)

Postby wingspan33 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:54 pm

Okay Bob,

So here I go with my own figuring -

If your Falcon (with you as the pilot) has a nice/safe low end speed of 20 mph, then using your 1.73 X calculation, Little Hawk would have to have roughly 35 mph winds to fly you in the same manner. That's a good bit slower than I would have guessed off the top of my head.

Now you've got me thinking about 40 mph beech soarable days using mini gliders! lol
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Re: Little Hawk at UCSD (September 2012)

Postby JoeF » Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:28 pm

Tiny hawk is smaller than Little Hawk:
KiteWing USA Promo http://youtu.be/W8IRgrI7Fkg
I post in respect for the Little Hawk's peek at possible flight-speed estimation above.
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Re: Little Hawk at UCSD (September 2012)

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed May 22, 2013 7:27 pm

wingspan33 wrote:So here I go with my own figuring -

If your Falcon (with you as the pilot) has a nice/safe low end speed of 20 mph, then using your 1.73 X calculation, Little Hawk would have to have roughly 35 mph winds to fly you in the same manner. That's a good bit slower than I would have guessed off the top of my head.


It may be a good bit slower than you'd have guessed, but it's still a good bit faster than I can run!!!    :srofl:
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Re: Little Hawk at UCSD (September 2012)

Postby Bill Cummings » Wed May 22, 2013 8:06 pm

bobk wrote:
wingspan33 wrote:So here I go with my own figuring -

If your Falcon (with you as the pilot) has a nice/safe low end speed of 20 mph, then using your 1.73 X calculation, Little Hawk would have to have roughly 35 mph winds to fly you in the same manner. That's a good bit slower than I would have guessed off the top of my head.


It may be a good bit slower than you'd have guessed, but it's still a good bit faster than I can run!!!    :srofl:

That cleared thing up for me more so than your previous post.
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