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 Post subject: Who has rightful authority on in-air conduct at TP airspace?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:19 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:41 pm
Posts: 3193

And :  

I get the distinct feeling that the ground-site concessionaire
is way over-stepping matters. The concessionaire might wish
it had authority for what happens in the air; but I suspect that
the pilots have the authority of what happens in the air
massaged by what the F.A.A. has to say. The concessionaire
might want to overlord those who walk and use the spot
of land involved in the concessionaire's leased spot.
But if a pilot flew into the local airspace from a remote airspace,
then I am wondering what the F.A.A. requires of the pilot.
Has the F.A.A. specified special authority to the for-profit
ground-based concessionaire with regard to airspace use?

Has the airspace over TP been privatized, or is the airspace
open Class G ? Does anyone have any documentation that put the implicit TP airspace into "controlled" airspace (non Class G)?????

Can anyone just start declaring rules over pilot conduct in the air? Radio is not required in Class G airspace. The concessionaire at the ground at TP concession is requiring radio for the HG in the airspace. Did they clear this matter with the F.A.A.? Has the F.A.A. given the ground profiteer authority to put rules over the pilots that enter the airspace involved?

If the for-profit concessionaire has not the rights that it publishes, then could it be severely be breaking public trust and liable for such breaking?

I suspect the concessionaire's "Closed" sign does not control the openness of the airspace of TP region. And consider what occurs if the concessionaire goes out of business; I suspect the involved airspace remains open for aircraft to use!

Test scenario: Suppose concessionaire looks up and sees 20 hang gliders coming in over the cliffs to fly. None of the involved pilots have membership with any national organization besides being citizens of the USA. None of the involved pilots have membership with the concessionaire. None of the pilots even know about the concessionaire's striving to collect launch fees. The 20 hang gliders soar about for a few hours and then head off afar and give no notice to the concessionaire's food service cafe. The 20 hang gliders land someplace, but not on the concessionaire's postage-stamp leased spot. None of the 20 hang gliders had radio; they used only VFRs as they fly among whatever aircraft share the local airspace; they look to the F.A.A. and good piloting means to conduct themselves in the air. I am suspecting that those 20 hang glider pilots owe the concessionaire zero nod financially or rulewise. I am open to being informed otherwise.

Some FAR 103 talk: ... _alone.htm

Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at

View pilots' hang gliding rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System

Last edited by JoeF on Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

 Post subject: Re: Who has rightful authority on in-air conduct at TP airsp
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:04 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:11 am
Posts: 3260

You are almost correct, Joe. Torrey Pines is airspace with a special notice H for "hang gliding activity." No permission, certification or license needed. This airspace exists under the Mirimar high-use military and commercial aircraft zone at 1,800 to 10,000 feet that is best to avoid. (I think you could fly a hang glider in it legally with a transponder, aviation grade transceiver, an FAA pilot license, medical certificate, aircraft type certification, identification "N" number and permission from ATC - especially if you spike their punch first.) Above that, the airspace is rated "G," and then above 14,500 feet, "E." Not being much interested in flying in such a mess, I haven't really applied myself to deciphering it and I may be wrong.

UNCONTROLLED AIRSPACE, according to the FAA ... 12thEd.pdf
Class G Airspace within the United States extends up to 14,500’ Mean Sea Level. At and above this altitude is Class E, excluding the airspace less than 1500’ above the terrain and certain special use airspace areas.
Let's use private email to set up the US Hawks / Torrey Hawks Towing Seminar on a nice, soarable day, regardless.
It will be more fun that way. ;)

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