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Should the Hawks have ID/Rating cards ?

Postby Keith Beebe » Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:24 pm

Hi all--I'm pretty new here so if this has been discussed please excuse me. Keith
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Re: Should the Hawks have ID/Rating cards ?

Postby Bill Cummings » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:12 pm

Keith Beebe wrote:Hi all--I'm pretty new here so if this has been discussed please excuse me. Keith

No cards that I remember of here.
But if someone had a USHPA card or a print out of the US Hawks ratings list it would go a long way to let locals know
of a visiting pilots ability to handle their familiar site.
I know that you can handle sites where the RGSA flys here in New Mexico. So I'll wire you off even if your USHPA expires.
We have one insured site north of El Paso TX. That could be a sticking point with some members that worry about insured sites.
But all the other sites --- you're good to go. Everyone should hang on to their expired USHPA cards and carry them.

And still some type of card for the US Hawks could be discussed.
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Re: Should the Hawks have ID/Rating cards ?

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:47 pm

Let me start with the procedural answer...

Th U.S. Hawks is intended to be a much more member-driven organization than that "other" club. We have a forum titled "Issues for the US Hawks Board of Directors" located in the "Building the U.S. Hawks" subforum. That's how members can bring items directly to the U.S. Hawks Board of Directors. If any Directors like an idea, then they can champion it. I think member cards would be a good topic for you to suggest.

I am one of the Board members, and I would support the idea with some cautions...

First, the U.S. Hawks recognizes that flying a hang glider requires the personal responsibility of the person doing the flying. No rating system can substitute for pilots making good decisions.

Second, in the modern era, it is very easy to forge almost anything .... including USHPA cards and/or U.S. Hawks cards (if we make them). Even with encryption technology, it would be difficult to come up with a hack-proof system.

So with those thoughts in mind, I still like the idea of cards but as more of a keepsake of one's accomplishment than as absolute proof of a rating.

But we have a Board so that the Board can decide these things. Please start a topic in the forum I mentioned and you can see how we handle things first-hand. :)

Thanks for joining us Keith!!!!

Moderator's note: Keith did start another topic in the Issues for the US Hawks Board of Directors forum. To keep these related posts together, both topics were merged on July 24th 2016 at around 17:30 PDT. The resulting topic was mirrored in both locations.
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org
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Re: Should the Hawks have ID/Rating cards ?

Postby Rick Masters » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:03 am

Image

Bob, just keep a current member ratings page on the web site for verification.
Also, I would suggest on the back of each card, a quote and link from the member's state recreation law exempting landowners from liability.
I'd make it extremely official in appearance, with a photo ID and hologram.
Full card hologram overlays run less than $2 each in low quantities (25).

Image

How to use the hologram
http://www.securityhologram.com/flash_movie.php?movie=SHID-01-eagle.swf&width=640&height=480

Providing this card to members would grow membership like wildfire.
Even USHPA members would want to carry one along with their USHPA card for, if no other reason, bragging rights.

Guess who's gonna drop a big one when they see this? :lol:

-- Form a real national hang gliding association --
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Should the Hawks have ID/Rating cards ?

Postby Keith Beebe » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:15 pm

I was thinking that as the group grows some sort of ID would be useful tool . Keith
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Re: Should the Hawks have ID/Rating cards ?

Postby Keith Beebe » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:21 pm

Thanks Bill, Bob and Rick. I moved that topic over to Issues for USH BOD
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Re: Should the Hawks have ID/Rating cards ?

Postby Bill Cummings » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:31 pm

Keith Beebe wrote:I was thinking that as the group grows some sort of ID would be useful tool . Keith

Keith, I volunteered to become a Trial Board Member and was accepted.

If you would like to hammer out a proposal here to get the exact wording set as a motion I can move it to the, "  "Board of Directors Private Discussion. "  
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Re: Should the Hawks have ID/Rating cards ?

Postby Bill Cummings » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:57 pm

Keith, you may even wish to propose that it goes in front of the membership for a vote.
Check out the different way of voting that we have here at   "Voting Test #1 - Hang Glider Images"  
If your first choice doesn't find favor with the majority of members your second choice, third choice and so on is made known and is counted.
Go to:
http://ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1259
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Re: Should the Hawks have ID/Rating cards ?

Postby Keith Beebe » Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:30 pm

My proposal is :: To create an ID/Ratings card for the US Hawks members

In my opinion the steps should be :::

1) Present the idea to the members for discussion and allow adequate time for all members to consider the proposal.

2) The proposal should then go in front of the members for a vote---majority wins --end of discussion.

3) If the proposal wins a majority then a format for the ID can be discussed.

4) Members can present ideas for the format and adequate time should be allowed for every member to present ideas and discuss format options.

5) Members vote on the options for a format---majority wins
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Re: Should the Hawks have ID/Rating cards ?

Postby Bill Cummings » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:03 pm

Keith Beebe wrote:My proposal is :: To create an ID/Ratings card for the US Hawks members

In my opinion the steps should be :::

1) Present the idea to the members for discussion and allow adequate time for all members to consider the proposal.

2) The proposal should then go in front of the members for a vote---majority wins --end of discussion.

3) If the proposal wins a majority then a format for the ID can be discussed.

4) Members can present ideas for the format and adequate time should be allowed for every member to present ideas and discuss format options.

5) Members vote on the options for a format---majority wins

Keith,
Step #1) is already posted on the correct thread. Members now can consider your proposal, discuss pros an cons and add their suggestions if they feel the desire to fine tune any steps (or elements) to the proposal.

I see no problem with step two for this proposal but I do want to express a concern for future proposals that could be put to a majority vote.
USHPA allowed a popular polling by Tad (?) when it came to the name change from USHGA.
The popular vote carried no real weight and was actually done by the Regional Directors.
The US Hawks will have a greater say in what goes on.
I didn't even know most of the time how the RD's voted.
I personally saw the name change as a tampering with the articles of incorporation that should have taken a 2/3 or 3/4 vote to accomplish. My caution is to say, "Never again." There will probably come a time where I will fight tooth and nail to not accept a majority vote on core beliefs of the founding US Hawks. If the pilots that play golf bring in more golfers and they want to change the LZ to a golf course I want to be able to put my foot down (over the cup) and say, "hell no."
I want my minority vote to keep the LZ.
Steps 3,4 and 5 so far look good to me.
Cost of implementation and maintenance of the rating proposal is something that I'm hoping that good ideas find their way here.
We can wait and see how fast the ideas come in to decide what will be an adequate time for members to consider the proposal.
(Please excuse the spelling errors)
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