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Re: Should the Hawks have ID/Rating cards ?

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:34 pm

Bill, your post is very well thought out and reflects my thinking as well.

Because we are a free club, and we do not ask for social security numbers or fingerprints or DNA samples, we have to realize that a group of golfers could indeed sign up (claiming to be hang glider pilots) and out-vote all of the real hang gliding members we have. Until we address that problem, I think decisions should remain primarily with the US Hawks Board of Directors (as they have so far).

Having said that, I think Keith's idea is a great one, and I think Bill is right that step 1 is already complete. In fact, Keith framed it very well in the title to this topic:

  Should the Hawks have ID/Rating cards?

I think answering that simple question is the first step. If it passes, then we can entertain motions on how to go about implementing it.

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Here's the next bite:

  I move that the US Hawks should issue ID/Rating Cards through a process to be determined by further Board discussions in this topic.  

Do I hear a second from any Board Member?
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Re: Should the Hawks have ID/Rating cards ?

Postby Bill Cummings » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:50 pm

Bob Kuczewski wrote:Bill, your post is very well thought out and reflects my thinking as well.

Because we are a free club, and we do not ask for social security numbers or fingerprints or DNA samples, we have to realize that a group of golfers could indeed sign up (claiming to be hang glider pilots) and out-vote all of the real hang gliding members we have. Until we address that problem, I think decisions should remain primarily with the US Hawks Board of Directors (as they have so far).

Having said that, I think Keith's idea is a great one, and I think Bill is right that step 1 is already complete. In fact, Keith framed it very well in the title to this topic:

  Should the Hawks have ID/Rating cards?

I think answering that simple question is the first step. If it passes, then we can entertain motions on how to go about implementing it.

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Here's the next bite:

  I move that the US Hawks should issue ID/Rating Cards through a process to be determined by further Board discussions in this topic.  

Do I hear a second from any Board Member?

  I second  
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Re: Should the Hawks have ID/Rating cards ?

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:54 pm

While that motion is awaiting a second, I'd like to throw out some thoughts to consider assuming that we vote to issue the cards.

First, to keep down costs, we could issue the cards electronically. Each member could then print their own on paper or plastic or etch it in stainless steel.

Second, I don't think we have the technology (yet) to make the cards authoritative (in other words, forge-proof). I think USHPA's cards have a similar problem. So while the cards will be handy for people without internet access, I think the final authority for issued ratings is our official ratings topic in this forum.

Third, regardless of whether the rating cards are tamper proof or not, and regardless of whether we can check them on-line, there is still the problem of determining that the person on the card is the same person wanting to fly. If Joe (can't really fly) Pilot were to duplicate the card of Rick Masters ... and then show up at a flying site claiming to be Rick Masters, do we have a way to determine that he's not Rick Masters? Do we check his driver's license? What if that's forged? What if Rick doesn't drive and it's really him? For that reason, I think it's important to remember that there are no rating requirements to fly a hang glider, period. Any requirements that a pilot finds are requirements put in place by a landowner. So the landowner is really the one to decide whether he accepts a paper card fresh out of a cheap ink jet printer ... or requires stainless steel.
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Re: Should the Hawks have ID/Rating cards ?

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:56 pm

:srofl:

I guess we weren't waiting for a "second" while I was typing after all.      :lol:

A motion has been made and seconded. All Board Members can begin to vote on the motion that the US Hawks should issue ID/Rating Cards through a process to be determined by further Board discussions in this topic.

I vote   YES  .
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Re: Should the Hawks have ID/Rating cards ?

Postby Bill Cummings » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:04 pm

Bob Kuczewski wrote::srofl:

I guess we weren't waiting for a "second" while I was typing after all.      :lol:

A motion has been made and seconded. All Board Members can begin to vote on the motion that the US Hawks should issue ID/Rating Cards through a process to be determined by further Board discussions in this topic.

I vote   YES  .

  Yes  
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Re: Should the Hawks have ID/Rating cards ?

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:28 pm

Keith Beebe wrote:Thanks Bill, Bob and Rick. I moved that topic over to Issues for USH BOD


Thank you Keith!!!!

It's great having a new guy stir us up a bit ... and keep us moving forward.

Here's the link to the new topic:

      http://ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=2550

RIght now, the Board is voting on the simple question of whether we should issue cards. If that passes (I think it will) we might vote on submissions for how to actually do it. I'd sure like a card like the one Rick has posted above!!!   :thumbup:
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Re: Should the Hawks have ID/Rating cards ?

Postby SamKellner » Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:53 pm

:salute:   YES   :salute:

:wave:
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Re: Should the Hawks have ID/Rating cards ?

Postby Bill Cummings » Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:17 pm

Keith,
With just under 2,000 topics posted here at the US Hawks I thought it would be a good idea to put a link up in case you didn't get around to it yet.
The link below will dovetail closely with the Rating Card Proposal. It covers discussions about the actual ratings. It also has ideas for proving up.
Possibly links on rating cards to online GPS trails or recordings and video links so that all could review a pilots progress and determine a pilots flying ability.
http://ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=2101
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Re: Should the Hawks have ID/Rating cards ?

Postby Keith Beebe » Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:38 pm

From Bill
Keith,
With just under 2,000 topics posted here at the US Hawks I thought it would be a good idea to put a link up in case you didn't get around to it yet.
The link below will dovetail closely with the Rating Card Proposal. It covers discussions about the actual ratings. It also has ideas for proving up.
Possibly links on rating cards to online GPS trails or recordings and video links so that all could review a pilots progress and determine a pilots flying ability.
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=2101


Sounds right Bill. Glad you didn't wait for me to do it !! My knowledge of the site would still be best compared to a "Whach" :shh: ----Thanks
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Re: Should the Hawks have ID/Rating cards ?

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:51 pm

There you go Keith ... in less than 24 hours you've gone from a suggestion to a majority vote of the U.S. Hawks Board (it may even be unanimous in another day).

How's that for a responsive organization?      ;)

Thanks again for joining us!!      :thumbup:
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