Re: The future of hang gliding on hanggliding.org

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:24 am

Rick Masters wrote:Bob, there is a little problem.
Two-thirds of USHPA fly paragliders.
We need a hang gliding association.
We need an association that promotes hang gliding.
We need an association that points out the superior qualities of hang gliders.
We need an association that will honestly point out the deadly flaws of paragliders.
No hybrid association will ever do this.
Even if you kiss and make up with the USHPA, we will still need a national hang gliding association.


I agree completely ... except for the first line.

Bob Kuczewski wrote:We want to be a voice and an association for recreational hang gliding pilots regardless of what USHPA becomes. It's in our mission statement, and we're sticking to it.


That's my promise to every member of the U.S. Hawks.
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Re: The future of hang gliding on hanggliding.org

Postby DaveSchy » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:33 am

There was an interesting thread on CBCC's list this week, from a new pilot. He was looking to sell a new Falcon, harness, chute and wheels that were only used for 5 sled runs. He stated that he was moving to an area where hang gliding was not practical, so he was going to get into paramotoring! He was willing to lose about $2000 on the deal.
Here's where I messaged him directly, and with little effort, persuaded him to re think his options, including speaking with Kamron at Northwing about putting a trike and/or struts on his Falcon, or trading it.
He wrote back saying that he had not even thought of the idea, and knows that paramotoring is extremely dangerous. He said he was going to do more research based on my suggestion.
No one else posted more than re post his ad and wish him luck with paramotoring.
The point being, these CBCC bozos did nothing more than bid him adieu.
I was heartened that he heard me, and was glad to advise him.
Where have all the new pilot's gone??
GOSH!
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Re: The future of hang gliding on hanggliding.org

Postby Rick Masters » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:46 am

I hope you suggested he visit the US Hawks.
Where have all the new pilots gone?

Once we were all new pilots.
What happened?
Well, at first, in the middle 1970s, the hang gliders were particularly dangerous.
A lot of the early pilots died in accidents or were injured so badly they left the sport.
Many of these were the best in the sport and had many followers who became disillusioned.
Then in the late 1970s and early 1980s, a lot of hang glider pilots transitioned to power.
Again, some were hang gliding's best and many were killed on the early ultralights which were not engineered for the stresses of power.
The late 1980s brought the paraglider, a much more dangerous cousin of the skydiving parachute.
Many of the best hang glider pilots tried this new sport and, accustomed to flying in strong thermal conditions, died in canopy collapses.
Others abandoned hang gliding for the ease of paragliding, despite the increased risk and decreased performance.
As the USHGA merged with paragliding, it was slowly taken over.
The vital emphasis on safety and hang gliding was lost as the leaders of USHPA fell under the influence of paragliding.
The promotion of hang gliding and even the honesty in recognition of safety issues dwindled.
Dave, I am certain you are intimately aware of all this but it needs to be repeated again and again for those evaluating choices in free flight.
The only way to bring hang gliding back into prominence or stability is to form a national hang gliding association focused on hang gliding.
USHPA is no longer an alternative nor even a good idea.
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Re: The future of hang gliding on hanggliding.org

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:34 pm

DaveSchy wrote:There was an interesting thread on CBCC's list this week ...

Rick Masters wrote:I hope you suggested he visit the US Hawks.

Thanks Rick. This really needs to be our focus for 2018.

The U.S. Hawks has gone from nothing (in 2010) to a regular hangout for a collection of visionary hang gliding pilots (2017).

We've created the first national hang gliding association that integrates local clubs into its infrastructure. We've supported existing clubs that predate the U.S. Hawks (like RGSA, Shasta, Torrey Hawks), and we've helped found new clubs (like SW Texas and Friends of Dockweiler).

We've helped open new sites like "Scott's Ridge" in New York, and we've re-opened older sites like Dockweiler to non-USHPA members.

We've held many years of successful Otto Meets that have reintroduced pilots to their roots. We've also used those events to introduce new potential pilots to the sport of hang gliding.

We've developed a rating system that's designed to be compatible with the current industry standard, and we've issued a number of ratings under that new system.

We've pioneered an open voting process for our trial Board of Directors, and we've helped to bring attention to USHPA's failure to do the same.

We've been an advocate for recreational pilots over the business interests that have steered too many of USHPA's decisions.

We've brought attention to the recreational use statutes that could supplant USHPA's faltering insurance schemes to put hang gliding on par with so many other outdoor activities (skiing, surfing, hiking, mountain biking, horseback riding, SCUBA diving, ...).

In short, we've done a lot considering that we're a small handful of folks who love hang gliding.

But it's time to do more.

It's time to make a more dedicated effort to boost our membership. Frank's recent letter to his mailing list is a good example. Let people know about the things we're doing and have done. Post about the U.S. Hawks to your local club. Ask your local club about becoming a U.S. Hawks chapter. If they're not interested, then start a new club. Work to break through the gag orders on sites that suppress discussion of the U.S. Hawks. Challenge those sites with your own willingness to be banned if that's what it takes.

That last point deserves special attention. The U.S. Hawks movement is a major development in the sport of hang gliding. Any web site that suppresses that information does a disservice to its members and to the sport as a whole. The U.S. Hawks now has a 7 year track record of fair and consistent operation. It's time to start calling out any forum operator who bans mentioning the U.S. Hawks or intentionally sabotages the links to our site. I encourage all U.S. Hawks members to put a link to our site (http://ushawks.org) in your signature lines on other forums. Challenge any operator who forbids such a simple and common practice.

Let's spread the word so we can start opening more sites to non-USHPA members and bring more focus to the Recreational Use statutes that were created exactly for sports like hang gliding.

Let's make 2018 a year of outreach to grow our membership to the next level.
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Re: The future of hang gliding on hanggliding.org

Postby DaveSchy » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:30 pm

:salute:
I am also going to try to help grow this movement that returns the sport I have loved for more than 4 decades, to our roots, emphasizing our proud tradition of self regulation.
Despite the bombastic, jingoistic uneducated and petrified responses I get from local representatives of ushpa, my primary preference will be to help the Hawks all I can, while my secondary efforts will be to not be silenced in trying to bring ushpa back to our traditional values, from within. I am not optimistic, but what the hell!
I am skeptical that ushpa will survive the coming groundswell of reason, based solely on their record, except as a national paragliding corporation navigating bankruptcy.
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Re: The future of hang gliding on hanggliding.org

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:00 pm

DaveSchy wrote: :salute:
I am also going to try to help grow this movement that returns the sport I have loved for more than 4 decades, to our roots, emphasizing our proud tradition of self regulation.
Despite the bombastic, jingoistic uneducated and petrified responses I get from local representatives of ushpa, my primary preference will be to help the Hawks all I can, while my secondary efforts will be to not be silenced in trying to bring ushpa back to our traditional values, from within. I am not optimistic, but what the hell!
I am skeptical that ushpa will survive the coming groundswell of reason, based solely on their record, except as a national paragliding corporation navigating bankruptcy.


I like your spirit Dave!!!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: The future of hang gliding on hanggliding.org

Postby Craig Muhonen » Fri Oct 29, 2021 1:30 am

PLAY ON WORDS



USHPA.......
YOU SHOULD HAPPILY PARACHUTE AWAY.....


USHGA.....
YOU SHOULD HANG GLIDE ANYWAY....

USHAWKS....
YOU SHOULD HAVE A WONDERFUL KIND SENSE....
"grow brave by reflection". And invincible with written words.
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Re: The future of hang gliding on hanggliding.org

Postby Chris McKeon » Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:25 pm

I hear all the Talk regarding how Hang Gliding is in such a state of Decline. Decline? Why is it in such a dreadful state of Decline. I hear that Paragliders have more appeal because of the alleged concept that they are More versatile. That One can Land one just about anywhere. I wholeHeartedly disagree with that notion. For if the HG Pilot has developed good landing Skills, a Hang Glider can Land just about anywhere providing there is Ground that the Pilot is able to stand upon. It really comes down to a PIlot's Skill whether or not an HG PIlot can land on Be it into the Wind, on Flat ground. Or maybe You need to Land up on the Mountain Down Wind Up-Hill. Check this out; We have an LZ that is up on Mount Diablo where the Juniper Ridge L-Z which is a Down-wind up-Hill LZ. I know of at least two other Pilots have used the Juniper Ridge L-Z. Kevin Dutt, Mike Sottestrome and Myself. up until I had to take a break to Flying due to My Crash, I know of not a single whack in that LZ. Think about it. How many L-Z.s can you name that are set up on flat ground into the Wind. That remain Whack-Free after oh about twenty years?

That old saying comes to Mind; "You can't argue with Success"


[ PARA GLIDERS}

cAN yOU SAY ASYMMETRICAL COLLAPSE? I for one will never have the Guts, the Raw Courage that one needs to possess in order to fly a ParaGlider. Talk about nerves of steel.
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Re: The future of hang gliding on hanggliding.org

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:52 am

Thanks for finding and reviving this topic Craig and Chris!!

I started this topic in 2017 after Jack Axaopoulos unilaterally made sweeping changes to hanggliding.org without consulting his so-called "members". That may put my opening post in context:

Bob Kuczewski wrote:There's a recent topic on hanggliding.org about the dropoff in activity since the site was upgraded to a new format. Jack replied with this ...

From hanggliding.org (topic: ORG DROPOFF):

sg (Jack) on Oct 25, 2017 wrote:There has been zero change in trend before/after the upgrade in google analytics. Except a lot more traffic from google searches, which went up.

Translation: Jack is in denial that his "upgraded" site and his abusive speech restrictions are driving people away.

sg (Jack) on Oct 25, 2017 wrote:That said, there is a big big big slow downtrend in hang gliding pilots in general, and this site exactly mirrors it.

I see no reason for that to change. It will keep going down until one day, HG and this site, will be effectively gone.

That is the future of hang gliding ... at least on hanggliding.org.


My opening post contained a link to a topic on hanggliding.org (http://forum.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=35654). Try to click on that link now and see where it goes. Here's what you'll find:

hanggliding.org wrote: 
    The requested topic does not exist.
 

Yes, once again, Jack Axaopoulos is covering his tracks and destroying the proof of his participation in the murder of hang gliding. He is also destroying or burying the posts of his own so-called "members" simply because they speak up about problems on his web site.

Sadly, most hang glider pilots have not been able to see how damaging hanggliding.org has been to the sport of hang gliding. That site presents itself as a place for hang glider pilots to discuss hang gliding topics. But it is NOT. It is a place where hang glider pilots can only say what Jack Axaopoulos wants them to say. Any discussion that strays too far from Jack's agenda is deleted. Anyone who objects is threatened or banned.

Sadly, both USHPA and hanggliding.org have contributed to the slow death spiral of hang gliding in the United States. Anyone supporting either of those organizations is also contributing to our decline.
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