The future of hang gliding on hanggliding.org

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:23 am

There's a recent topic on hanggliding.org about the dropoff in activity since the site was upgraded to a new format. Jack replied with this ...

From hanggliding.org (topic: ORG DROPOFF):

sg (Jack) on Oct 25, 2017 wrote:There has been zero change in trend before/after the upgrade in google analytics. Except a lot more traffic from google searches, which went up.

Translation: Jack is in denial that his "upgraded" site and his abusive speech restrictions are driving people away.

sg (Jack) on Oct 25, 2017 wrote:That said, there is a big big big slow downtrend in hang gliding pilots in general, and this site exactly mirrors it.

I see no reason for that to change. It will keep going down until one day, HG and this site, will be effectively gone.

That is the future of hang gliding ... at least on hanggliding.org.
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Re: The future of hang gliding on hanggliding.org

Postby Rick Masters » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:27 pm

Image
"The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated."
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A lot of foolish people think they're hang gliding with parachutes - but nobody ever thinks they're parachuting with hang gliders.
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Re: The future of hang gliding on hanggliding.org

Postby SamKellner » Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:26 pm

.....

In a discussion on recording RD votes, Red said this to Alan, about the old excuse that most of the RD votes are unanimous anyway

"If everybody agrees, then somebody is not thinking."


Read more: http://forum.hanggliding.org/viewtopic. ... z527p4weHM

You Go Red
:salute: :clap: :thumbup:

:wave:
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Re: The future of hang gliding on hanggliding.org

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:47 am

SamKellner wrote: You Go Red
:salute: :clap: :thumbup:

:wave:


Wow!!

Red is right on target!!!    :clap:

Three USHPA Regional Directors (including half of USHPA's Executive Committee :shock: ) were in that topic, and they couldn't make a dent in Red's arguments.    :srofl:

Thanks Sam ... and Merry Christmas!!!!    :thumbup:
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Re: The future of hang gliding on hanggliding.org

Postby DaveSchy » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:35 pm

Happy Holidays from snowy western Washington!
Here's an IDEA, (at this stage, just a concept) please send any feedback to me
for when it is time for those few of us left (who are still "dual citizens") to renew (or sooner), send in a one year "abstention to renew" with a specific note stating you are a

RECREATIONAL HANG GLIDER PILOT

Vote with our wallets!

SAMPLE
SEND IT CERTIFIED, RECEIPT REQUIRED


"Request for One Year Sabbatical"

I, USHPA Pilot # ________________, a member in good standing since ______________________, do hereby serve notice to USHPA that I intend to take a one year sabbatical from my financial support of USHGA effective ___________________.
I have been forced to temporarily withdraw my support as a vote of "No Confidence" in the last BOD, and the direction they have taken this club. It is my full intent to renew my membership by _________.

In making this statement in protest, unless a written response from USHPA states otherwise, upon certified receipt of this notice, the USHPA agrees that my membership renewal, before ______________, will reinstate my current membership number, ratings and special skills.
My reasons for making this protest follow:

I protest USHPA having become a governing club and an insurance company, rather than a self regulated group of recreational pilots, which is contrary to USHPA's fine history.

I am uncomfortable with my potential exposure to financial liability risk under the RRRG, which was not the case when coverage was provided by Lloyd's of London.
I believe that the liability management model for recreational flying presently in use with Los Angeles County Department of Beaches indicates that acceptable legal liability protections can be achieved without USHPA having to be "self insured".

I believe that people in the business of hang gliding should procure adequate liability insurance without the involvement of recreational pilots, as a cost of doing business.

I protest that many decisions that should be made by the membership, and that financial details important to the membership, are made and held in secret, contrary to USHPA's fine history of democracy and full disclosure.

I believe that USHPA has not given their full attention to liability management via existing Outdoor Recreation Statutes and the use of well written Waivers to replace the "site insurance" now offered to public agencies and private land owners under the RRRG.

I believe that the rapidly shrinking number of hang glider pilots in USHPA can be attributed to USHPA governance policies in far greater measure than the aging of the membership.

As a member for ______________ years, it is my sincere hope that these concerns will be addressed with seriousness at the Spring, 2018 BOD Meeting.

I am looking forward to the USHPA becoming a club of self regulated recreational hang glider pilots again.

Name__________________________ USHPA#_____________________ Date________________

Signed_________________________
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Re: The future of hang gliding on hanggliding.org

Postby Rick Masters » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:17 pm

Who gives a flying fart what the USHPA thinks?
They are toast.
Parachutists have different priorities than hang glider pilots.
Set them free.
We need a national hang gliding association.
It doesn't matter how many battles you lose if you win the war.
Each time, confront.
Don't beg.
Don't threaten.
Don't compromise.
Don't partner.
They don't need us?
:lol: We don't need them.
We don't need the USHPA - they are morphing into something incomprehensible.
Let them continue down that path to ruin.

"Do not interfere with an army that is returning home."
        -- Sun Tzu
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A lot of foolish people think they're hang gliding with parachutes - but nobody ever thinks they're parachuting with hang gliders.
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Re: The future of hang gliding on hanggliding.org

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:14 pm

Rick Masters wrote:Set them free.


I think Dave's letter does set them free ... one year at a time.    ;)

In all seriousness, one thing I've learned is that different people choose different methods to effect change. It's hard to know which methods will work and which will fail. But whether they work or fail, they're all evidence of a sincere desire for change. That speaks from all of us, and it unites all of us.   :clap: :clap: :clap:

Thanks to Rick.    :salute:
Thanks to Dave.    :salute:
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Re: The future of hang gliding on hanggliding.org

Postby DaveSchy » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:11 am

Rick is Right,
Confronting USHPA only slows the process they have proven to be most capable of, destroying them selves.
Thanks for the perspective Rick
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Re: The future of hang gliding on hanggliding.org

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:54 pm

I think you're both right. That's a common situation when there's a lot of unknown information.

Imagine two guys lost in a forest - at night - trying to find water. They both know they should search downslope because water is likely in a valley. But they come to a ridge line with two diverging downward directions. One thinks the water is on the left, and the other thinks it's on the right. If either is convinced to go against their belief, then there may be resentment all along that path. If they can communicate (and the distance isn't too far), then taking different paths improves their chances. From "God's eye" one might be right, but from what they can see it's a coin toss.

The key here is the element of the unknown. USHPA could do a 180 any time ...

  • They've lost their insurance.
  • They've sold their headquarters building.
  • They're losing long term members.
  • They're losing long term schools.
  • They've lost their (effective) monopoly of FAA tandem waivers.
  • They've lost their (literal) monopoly at Dockweiler.
  • The U.S. Hawks are growing steadily.
And, to top it off, Mark Forbes was just voted out of his Directorship.   :shock:

This is a situation with a lot of unknowns. Alan Crouse (current V.P. at USHPA) might be a "sleeper" waiting to rise to the Presidency before fixing this whole mess. The same could be true of our other Region 3 Directors (Ken Andrews and Dan DeWeese). They've all been respectable men in the past. Maybe they're just biding their time?

From where I'm sitting, USHPA could go either way at this point. But what we're doing with the U.S. Hawks doesn't depend on what USHPA does or what USHPA becomes. We want to be a voice and an association for recreational hang gliding pilots regardless of what USHPA becomes. It's in our mission statement, and we're sticking to it.

So from my perspective, there's no conflict with U.S. Hawks members who want to help improve USHPA. In fact every effort to improve USHPA that is resisted by USHPA's leadership shines a bright light on why we need the U.S. Hawks. See the recent (and ancient) open voting discussions on hanggliding.org for a perfect example.

With so many unknowns, Dave's letter could be the wake up call that triggers a land slide, or it could just cause the USHPA insiders to dig in their heels even deeper. But anyone wanting to go down any ravine is welcome by me. Just radio back if you find water!!!    :)
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Re: The future of hang gliding on hanggliding.org

Postby Rick Masters » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:15 pm

Bob, there is a little problem.
Two-thirds of USHPA fly paragliders.
We need a hang gliding association.
We need an association that promotes hang gliding.
We need an association that points out the superior qualities of hang gliders.
We need an association that will honestly point out the deadly flaws of paragliders.
No hybrid association will ever do this.
Even if you kiss and make up with the USHPA, we will still need a national hang gliding association.
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