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Ken Andrews is a tall and brave pilot

PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:05 pm
by Bob Kuczewski
This topic on the Sylmar Forum was started by "dhmartens" (Doug) at a time when I began to criticize USHPA Regional Director Ken Andrews for allowing the Torrey Hawks club's USHPA chapter renewal to not be processed. The title ("Ken Andrews is a tall and brave pilot") was likely a response to that criticism.

Here's the first page of posts to that topic:

dhmartens (Jul 07, 2016 9:13 pm) wrote:Ken Andrews is a tall and brave pilot

OP had published satire under my name that represented Ken Andrews as the opposite as he is in reality as a form of satire but a new pilot may be confused.
Ken is one of the tallest pilots I know, has served as president of SHGA, Created the Adventure Pass, Helped organize the Falcon League, demonstrated towing up a Falcon in the Pacoma wash days after the Jean Lake accident and most bravely he has run and been elected as a USHPA regional director after an incident when one has been recalled for being ahead of his time. It is funny and satirical that Ken would be comically referred to as being the opposite as he actually is.

That being said it is possible Ken has become "One of Them" after being elected as a regional director.

You will have to determine this for your self, see imdb "Invasion of the Body Snatchers"

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I have the greatest respect for Ken, but USHPA should know the California Economy is now rated as the 5th largest economy in the world, Brazil and France fell,the only larger economies are:
U.S., China, Japan, Germany and the United Kingdom.
Be careful when you tread here.
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Jim (Jul 07, 2016 10:03 pm) wrote:You must be speaking satirically, Doug. You're the one who's demonstrably become one of "them."

Ken remains, as always, incorruptible.


dhmartens (Jul 08, 2016 7:55 pm) wrote:Jim you are very perceptive.

I will become one of them once my new ipad/iphone/ios app is complete.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Where is Teacher Tom when you need him. His associate Ms. Pennyworth has assigned her 7th grade web development class: Create a webpage that recreates a national flying organization.
Allow selection of insurance from a marketplace, allow online and GPS verifiable web based simulation and training,
and 3rd party verifiable rating system.

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http://www.dmv.org/ca-california/motorc ... esults.php


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M4_Ommfvv0[/youtube]

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The part missing is getting a sample of Greblo's brain tissue and melding it with a computer chip.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 172512.htm

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Bob Kuczewski (Jul 21, 2016 9:59 pm) wrote:Ken...

I too have had great respect (and hope) for Ken.

Ken knows - as most do - that my expulsion was unjustified. But he's done nothing.

Ken is also aware that USHPA is not renewing our Torrey Hawks chapter even though we have been a chapter since 2007 and have met all requirements. So far he's done nothing there either.

I don't know who is pulling Ken's strings, but it is disappointing to see a good man lose his integrity so quickly.


rebardan "(Jul 22, 2016 8:34 am) wrote:Ph test

Perhaps your methodology needs reconsideration.


Bob Kuczewski (Jul 22, 2016 9:25 am) wrote:Re: Ph test

rebardan wrote:Perhaps your methodology needs reconsideration.

Spoken by another USHPA Director who inspired great hope but delivered ... nothing.

Can you tell us, Dan, what was your major accomplishment at USHPA? What did you do that would have been different without you?

Nothing to say on that?

I'm not trying to be hard on you Dan. The USHPA insiders have rigged the game to keep you (or Ken) from exerting any real influence in the organization. They let directors do superficial things like give out awards to keep everyone happy. But try to do something real (like voting records, due process, or a balanced Soaring Council) and you meet the brick wall.

So far Ken is on track to follow in the great achievements of other hopefuls like Bill Helliwell, Alan Crouse, and yourself. Your collective legacy is the lost insurance policy that had been earned through the decades and squandered under your watch.

It's not a methodology problem. It's a backbone in the boardroom problem.


Bob Kuczewski (Jul 22, 2016 9:42 am) wrote:Let me add one more comment about insurance...

The whole notion of insurance is based on the statistics that bad things sometimes happen. Insurers deal with that every day. It's random chance and statistics.

What scares insurers - and should - is systemic failures in an organization's management of risk. That's what they saw at Torrey in the spring 2015 settlement of the Hamby case. They pulled the insurance plug shortly afterward.

USHPA's response was to brainwash its members and then shoot the messenger. What was your response?


Bob Kuczewski (Dec 03, 2017 2:58 am) wrote:Sorry, Not Brave

This topic was started about halfway through Ken's first year in office. We are now nearing the end of his two year term.

Ken has not been brave at USHPA. In fact, he's been the opposite. He knows very well that my expulsion was unjustified. He hasn't been able to cite a single SOP that was violated. He's smart enough to find some justification if there were any ... and he hasn't.

Ken also assured us that the Torrey Hawks Chapter would be renewed. But he sat by and watched silently as USHPA simply refused to renew it with no justification ever given.

I would not say that Ken is a bad man. He's in the majority of humans just like the majority who watched silently while their neighbors were murdered as "witches" in Salem Massachusetts. He's also in the majority just like the majority who watched the racial lynchings in the deep south. And he's in the majority just like the majority in Germany who looked the other way as Jews were murdered in the concentration camps.

After two years, it pains me to say that Ken is not a brave man. He may be brave in flight (I don't know), and he may be brave in the dentist's chair (I don't know that either). But he was certainly NOT brave under the peer pressure of the USHPA board room. He has allowed 2 years of my life to pass without flying my favorite sites.

Those are 2 years I'll never get back, Ken. You should be ashamed for watching that happen during your Directorship. I know your excuse "No one else would have supported it", but that would have been their burden if you'd have at least made the motion. But you didn't and now it's on you.

In July of 2016, Doug wrote:That being said it is possible Ken has become "One of Them" after being elected as a regional director.

The facts support this possibility.


Bob Bendetson (Dec 03, 2017 2:29 pm) wrote:Hey Bob K.,
OMG, did you just compare Ken A. to those who stayed silent during witch trials, lynchings and the holocaust? Over the hyperbolic line, dude!!! You not being allowed to launch a sanctioned USHPA site is not equivalent to burnings, hangings and genocide. I’ve always supported your right to protest what you thought was unfair treatment (even if I disagreed with your mosquito-like, buzzing in the ear methods}. And I bit my tongue (I have a scar to prove it) when you compared yourself to Rosa Parks, an icon in civil rights. But, good golly Miss Molly, Ken Andrews a collaborator?! C’mon, man, you’re better than that.
Bob B.
P.S. No need for you to answer this – don’t really want to get into a back and forth.


Bob Kuczewski (Dec 03, 2017 11:53 pm) wrote:
Bob Bendetson wrote:Hey Bob K.,
OMG, did you just compare Ken A. to those who stayed silent during witch trials, lynchings and the holocaust?


Yes, I did. The human behavior of silently watching an injustice has the same roots regardless of the magnitude of the injustice. It's peer pressure - of one form or another - and it goes very deep in human nature. There was a time when rejection by your tribe meant certain death. That's why the fear of public speaking is so universal. Judgement by peers is a powerful force, and the USHPA Board knows how to wield it.

Bob Bendetson wrote:P.S. No need for you to answer this – don’t really want to get into a back and forth.


That's the easy way out. It avoids the hard questions like this one:

Should pilots be expelled from flying because they testify in court?

It doesn't matter who likes which testimony. There are always two sides.
That's not the question.
The question is whether any testimony should be grounds for expulsion?

It's a "yes" or "no" answer Bob. Not much "back and forth" required.
Step up and be counted. Tell us what kind of sport and society you want to live in.

Is testifying in court a legitimate reason to expel people from hang gliding?

Yes ... or no?

If you don't have the courage to answer that easy question (from your keyboard no less),
you'd have been useless to anyone facing death at the hands of an angry mob or the Nazis.

Be silent and prove my point.


Bob Bendetson (Dec 04, 2017 8:28 am) wrote:The reason I didn’t want to go back and forth with you, Bob K., is that (in my humble opinion) your squabble with the USHPA over the years has veered into zealotry. Arguing with you is like arguing with a religious fanatic or a Trump supporter (still love ya, Joe!). Keep fighting the fight, Bob K., but for heaven's sake, put things in context. And for context, I lost both sets of grandparents, a half-brother, and most of my cousins and uncles on my father’s side during the “final solution.â€Â� So in the future, please refrain from bringing the holocaust into this, and I will definitely refrain from answering any more of your posts. It’s a waste of my time and yours. Thanks.


Bob Kuczewski (Dec 04, 2017 10:01 am) wrote:Bob,

There's a well known saying that an injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.

Of course your losses dwarf my loss of flight. I'm sorry about that. But this is a hang gliding forum, and in the world of hang gliding, taking away a person's right to fly is about as bad as it gets (excluding, of course, what was done to Shannon Hamby). And in that context, no one is asking you to pick up a rifle or sacrifice your life. You're simply being asked to say that the association you support (with your membership and your money) shouldn't be expelling your fellow pilots for legal testimony in a court of law regarding a woman who was badly and severely injured.

So within that limited context ...

Is testifying in court a legitimate reason to expel people from hang gliding?

Yes ... or no?

As I said, if you (and Ken) are too whimpy to stand up and say "NO!" (which is about zero risk to your life or limb), then it's easy to see how people facing more dire consequences will remain silent (All that evil needs to thrive - in any context - is for good men to do nothing).

You've done a lot of typing for a guy who doesn't want to waste anyone's time.

But you've somehow been unable to find these two or three keystrokes: Yes or No?


Bob Kuczewski (Dec 04, 2017 10:44 am) wrote:While we're waiting for Bob to find a few keys on his keyboard ...

It's easy for humans to imagine that they would be brave or heroic in the circumstances that we've discussed (lynch mobs and totalitarian death squads). We each like to imagine that we wouldn't stand by and watch others be abused. But history tells us that we're likely fooling ourselves.

Most of us (fortunately) will never be tested in such dire situations. But we are tested in milder situations each and every day. Do we take the time to stand up against these smaller injustices, or do we cower in the safety of silence and inaction?

These are the questions I asked myself in 2006 when John Heiney came to me asking for my help with his friend David Beardslee who was banned from Torrey without due process.

I knew it would be a can of worms. I really wanted to turn away and decline the request. I didn't even know Dave Beardslee. Why should I stand up for him?

I was being tested. And for all the misery, and jail time, and expense, and loss of flying, and loss of friendships that it's cost me ... I would do it again.

David Beardslee can fly at Torrey to this very day.


Bob Kuczewski (Mar 17, 2018 2:15 pm) wrote:All it takes for evil to thrive ...

Bob Bendetson wrote:Hey Bob K.,
OMG, did you just compare Ken A. to those who stayed silent during witch trials, lynchings and the holocaust? Over the hyperbolic line, dude!!!


Actually, it gets even better. I'm also comparing you to the vast majority in all those cases who stood by and silently watched an injustice right in front of their faces.

How can you expect a significant number of average Germans to stand up and risk their lives when you're too lazy to even make a post or send an email about an injustice in your own back yard?

Or maybe you can comfort yourself (as Jonathan Dietch has done) by somehow convincing yourself that my expulsion was "justified". How many German citizens closed their eyes each night with the self consolation that "Those Jews must have done something to deserve this."? How are you any different?

It's been 3 years that I've been denied flight by the organization that you support. Others have written letters to fight this injustce. Others have withheld sizable donations to the RRRG protesting this injustice. And still others have even quit USHPA altogether over this injustice. What have you done?

That's right ... nothing.

On the bright side, maybe this gives you some first-hand insight as to how an entire culture could sit by while you lost both sets of grandparents, a half-brother, and most of your cousins and uncles on your father’s side.

All it takes for evil to thrive is for lazy cowardly men to do nothing.


JD (Mar 17, 2018 4:57 pm) wrote:Re: All it takes for evil to thrive ...

Bob Kuczewski wrote:....Or maybe you can comfort yourself (as Jonathan Dietch has done) by somehow convincing yourself that my expulsion was "justified"....
When and where did I say your expulsion was justified? I could have sworn I said it it was LONG OVERDUE. At least that how I feel about it.

Bob Kuczewski wrote:....It's been 3 years that I've been denied flight by the organization that you support....
There are umpteen sites that USHPA does not hold influence that are easily accessible to you yet you refuse to fly there. How sad.

Bob Kuczewski wrote:....All it takes for evil to thrive is for lazy cowardly men to do nothing.
USHPA wasn't lazy, cowardly or do-nothing. They expelled you. Granted it was probably overdue.

Happy St. Patty's Day Bob!


Bob Kuczewski (Mar 17, 2018 5:55 pm) wrote:Re: All it takes for evil to thrive ...

Bob Kuczewski wrote:....Or maybe you can comfort yourself (as Jonathan Dietch has done) by somehow convincing yourself that my expulsion was "justified"....

NME wrote:I could have sworn I said it it was LONG OVERDUE.

In this context, "overdue" and "due" carry the same implication as "justified". Sqirm if you like, but it only showcases your dishonesty.

Jonathan wrote:There are umpteen sites that USHPA does not hold influence that are easily accessible to you yet you refuse to fly there. How sad.

Trying to shake your guilt Jonathan?

I've flown Horse, Dockweiler, and a new site in New York since my expulsion. I fly Dockweiler most frequently, but it's a 3 hour drive. I could walk to Torrey from my desk at work (and I often do). But I can't fly there because of YOUshPa.

It's a lie for you to say there are "umpteen" sites that are easily accessible to me. But you already know that.

Jonatha wrote:USHPA wasn't lazy, cowardly or do-nothing. They expelled you. Granted it was probably overdue.

I didn't say USHPA was lazy, cowardly, or do-nothing. Check your reading comprehension. The people pushing my expulsion knew exactly what they were doing. They sent a long and overwhelming pack of lies to every member. They held a kangaroo court hearing without any witnesses. They backed down any directors (like Tiki) who tried to ask fair questions. USHPA knew exactly what they were doing.


JD (Mar 17, 2018 6:09 pm) wrote:Re: All it takes for evil to thrive ...

Bob Skrew Loo Ski wrote: ....I didn't say USHPA was lazy, cowardly, or do nothing. Check your reading comprehension.

Ah! So we are in agreement that USHPA's expulsion of you was long overdue. I'm so glad we see eye to eye.


Bob Kuczewski (Mar 17, 2018 6:18 pm) wrote:Re: All it takes for evil to thrive ...

NME wrote:
Bob Skrew Loo Ski wrote: ....I didn't say USHPA was lazy, cowardly, or do nothing. Check your reading comprehension.

Ah! So we are in agreement that USHPA's expulsion of you was long overdue. I'm so glad we see eye to eye.


More name calling and lies?

I never said it was overdue or long overdue ... or due at all.


Bob Kuczewski (Mar 18, 2018 8:42 am) wrote:Re: Ken Andrews is a tall and brave pilot

Back on topic ...

dhmartens wrote:Ken is one of the tallest pilots I know, has served as president of SHGA, Created the Adventure Pass, Helped organize the Falcon League, demonstrated towing up a Falcon in the Pacoma wash days after the Jean Lake accident and most bravely he has run and been elected as a USHPA regional director after an incident when one has been recalled for being ahead of his time.

Can anyone find where Ken Andrews has provided any justifiable reason why the Torrey Hawks Chapter was not renewed during Ken's first term (and remains unrenewed to this day)?

Of course I would like our chapter to be renewed, but USHPA's failure to do so for political revenge gives the rest of the world even more insight to what they've become. The same is true for Jonathan Dietch. Thanks.


Bob Kuczewski (Apr 28, 2018 10:53 pm) wrote:We had a nice day at Dockweiler today.

Several friends were testing out a new concept, and the wind picked up nicely at the end of the day. Several of us flew under the new waiver program after the business shut down.

Unfortunately, there's more to the story. One of my friends informed me that Bob Bendetson had been making a number of derogatory comments about me to my friends before I arrived. I approached Bob to ask about it, and he got angry ... about as angry as I've ever seen him. I suspect he was embarrassed about it. Embarrassment in being "caught" is often expressed as anger.

For the record (if I haven't said it often enough already) I don't think Bob is a "bad guy", and I don't think Ken is a "bad guy". Instead, I think my analogies to the average German (in Nazi Germany), and the average southerner (during the lynchings), and the average Salem citizen (during the witch trials) are accurate. It's their accuracy that stings Bob (and Ken) the most.

Unfortunately Bob, I cannot remove that sting. That's something you have to do for yourself. I sincerely wish you the best.

As for this topic, it's interesting that Ken has given no reason why he allowed the Torrey Hawks Chapter to be refused renewal under his watch. Maybe he's too embarrassed to answer as well. Ken?

Re: Ken Andrews ...

PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:31 pm
by Bob Kuczewski
Here's the second page of posts:

Bob Kuczewski (May 06, 2018 8:02 pm) wrote:Torrey Hawks Renewal

I just spoke to Joe Greblo earlier this evening. He'd been asking about the Torrey Hawks Chapter and that got me digging into USHPA's failure to renew our Chapter Status under Ken's watch (in the spring of 2016). Here's part of what I just sent to Joe:

Bob wrote:Our President (Brian McMahon) had sent in all the paperwork (because I wasn't a USHPA member). I ended up writing to Ken about it on May 26, 2016:

Bob wrote:"Ken, it's quite possible that USHPA will try to avoid renewing our Chapter status out of spite. They got away with expelling me for no reason, and they may do the same with our club's renewal. If that ends up being the case, will you help us with our renewal?"


Ken replied the next day (May 27th, 2016):

Ken wrote:"Bob and all,

I expect that the USHPA office will process your chapter renewal without problem. If you encounter any further difficulty, let me know, and I’ll do what I can to help.

-Ken"


USHPA didn't renew our Chapter and Ken did nothing. He said "let me know, and I'll do what I can to help" but he didn't keep his word.


My question to Ken was clear: "If [USHPA refuses], will you help us with our renewal?"

Ken's answer was also very clear: "... let me know, and I’ll do what I can to help." Ken sent that reply to myself, our club President (Brian McMahon), and to two observers (Joe Faust and Frank Colver).

So what did Ken Andrews actually "do to help"? Ken, would you like to field that question?

Re: Ken Andrews is a tall and brave pilot

PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:11 pm
by wingspan33
So what did Ken Andrews actually "do to help"? Ken, would you like to field that question?


Well, we could presume that he "did what he could". But it's awful hard to know what it is that he "could do". Perhaps he knew he couldn't do anything. But then again, maybe he tried everything he could and it wasn't good enough. The U$hPa hierarchy could simply have ignored Andrews - or told him "Do you want what Bob got?"

We can't read minds but U$hPa, as a collective, is corrupt.

Bob, expelling you hurt them more than they know. Unfortunately "they" aren't human. "They" are a corporation that want's to continue living by turning hang gliding and, even more so, PGing into corporate income. Corporations literally kill people to boost profits. Consider the pharma corps that sell all those super pain killers that people over dose on. The U$hPa is doing their part via killing people by promoting PGs and speed wings.

How do I end this post with a happy thought. Well, the US Hawks promote the safer wing and we can be proud of that! :!: :salute:

Re: Ken Andrews is a tall and brave pilot

PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:55 pm
by Bob Kuczewski
wingspan33 wrote:
So what did Ken Andrews actually "do to help"? Ken, would you like to field that question?

Well, we could presume that he "did what he could". But it's awful hard to know what it is that he "could do". Perhaps he knew he couldn't do anything. But then again, maybe he tried everything he could and it wasn't good enough. The U$hPa hierarchy could simply have ignored Andrews - or told him "Do you want what Bob got?"

We all know what he could do. It's the same thing that Tom "Red" Howard and Frank Colver and Michael Grisham could have done - SPEAK OUT!!!

You are right that there may have been explicit or implicit threats hanging over Ken's head for speaking out. But whenever someone yields to a threat, they give their power to someone else. That's what happened at Torrey for decades. Jebb or his cronies would threaten to call the police. If that threat didn't work, then they would actually summon the police and then "up the ante" with a threat of arrest. Most people would back down at that point (who's willing to go to jail for what they believe these days?), and again give their power to Jebb. It took someone willing to call those bluffs all the way through to the end to stop that abuse. The same was true on Jack's forum. People needed to call Jack's bluff and Jack would have backed down or ended up with a ghost town of a site. But finding people with a backbone is harder than I would have ever suspected.

wingspan33 wrote:Bob, expelling you hurt them more than they know.

I believe that's true as long as I (we) don't give up. Beating bullies requires persistence. In the short run, a bully can usually win. But in the long run, everyone figures out the situation and reacts accordingly. But that depends on people having access to the truth. That's why all the bullies do their best to control the communication channels. That's why USHPA broadcast the charges in my expulsion but not my reply. That's why Jack smears you and I with the "Bob and Scott Rule" and won't allow any rebuttal.

wingspan33 wrote:How do I end this post with a happy thought. Well, the US Hawks promote the safer wing and we can be proud of that! :!: :salute:

I have an even happier thought (at least for me). Over the last 9 years, the group of people who've found the U.S. Hawks are some of the most fair-minded people (with backbones!!) that I've ever known. It may not be the "World's Largest" group of hang gliding pilots, but it is the best group of hang gliding human beings I've ever known. We've been forged in the fire of adversity and come out strong as steel.

:salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: