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Re: Banning - Commentary

Postby wingspan33 » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:12 pm

Bob,

Here's my first post in a while. Nice talking to you earlier. But there's something I forgot to mention. That is, I believe that SG (Jack Axaopoulos) also banned me from (his?) Torrey Hawks Forum site. Now probably 2 1/2 months ago, I went to sign in and it didn't work. I meant to ask you about it back then, but it slipped my mind. Reading that Jack Axaopoulos has banned others from the Torrey Hawks Forum (without any consultation from Hawks leadership) caused me to consider that that could be why I can't log in.

I'll post just this for now. I've got other comments, but it's late.
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Re: Banning - Commentary

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:52 pm

Welcome Back Wingspan!!!

wingspan33 wrote:But there's something I forgot to mention. That is, I believe that SG (Jack Axaopoulos) also banned me from (his?) Torrey Hawks Forum site. Now probably 2 1/2 months ago, I went to sign in and it didn't work. I meant to ask you about it back then, but it slipped my mind. Reading that Jack Axaopoulos has banned others from the Torrey Hawks Forum (without any consultation from Hawks leadership) caused me to consider that that could be why I can't log in.

That's quite possible. At that time, I was President, Dave Beardslee was VP, and Theda was Club Secretary (the three officers in our club). None of us were consulted when Jack banned Warren, so I doubt we would have been consulted when he banned you either. I know that Warren's ban was without any authorization from the Board. Furthermore, I've requested the database information from that forum to transfer to the new forum, but Jack has ignored those requests as well. Mutiny by the IT guy.

Jack? Did you ever ban Wingspan from the TorreyHawksForum without checking with any of the Torrey Hawks Board members? Who else have you banned from the forum that you "donated" to our club?

Does anyone see a pattern here?
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Re: Banning - Commentary

Postby wingspan33 » Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:58 am

bobk wrote:. . . I know that Warren's ban was without any authorization from the Board. Furthermore, I've requested the database information from that forum to transfer to the new forum, but Jack has ignored those requests as well. Mutiny by the IT guy.

Jack? Did you ever ban Wingspan from the TorreyHawksForum without checking with any of the Torrey Hawks Board members? Who else have you banned from the forum that you "donated" to our club?

Does anyone see a pattern here?


Jack proves the nature of his character with abusive example after abusive example. Jack is all about "control". I've now heard a story about his "Lead Generation Program" from someone on the other (USHPA) side. Jack wanted to maintain control over that as well, except that it needed to be a USHPA run deal if the USHPA excepted it. But Jack could not give up control and USHPA declined Jack's (and Dennis') offer. But it was a good idea so USHPA created their own version - without it being controlled by Jack.

There certainly is a pattern here. Jack Axaopoulos created a program to create hang glider pilot members (for the USHPA?) and needed to control it to such a degree that he alienated the USHPA leadership. Somewhere in this time frame he started a web site where he repeatedly attacked the USHPA. He built a sizable base of sympathetic members with HG.org and continued to promote a negative image for the USHPA. I'm not saying that the USHPA didn't deserve to be criticized, but rather that Jack's motives may have been based on much more personal grounds.

BobK entered the picture on HG.org with the Torrey issues and SG was a big supporter. Why not? It actually makes a lot of sense to make BobK the front man in (Jack's) the anti(?) USHPA campaign (Jack even donated a web site [which he has sole control over] for Bob's creation, the Torrey Hawks).

In these ways Jack Axaopoulos could avoid taking the heat while, at the same time, using Bob as a means to "rally the troops". And that's just how things went. Bob got the ball rolling (Jack Axaopoulos ball, as it ends up) and aligned a good group of people to back the creation of a new hang gliding only National Association. Jack then "donated" a web site for the newly forming HGAA. Such a nice guy! NOT! Jack has known all along that if you control the media and you control the people. That was the effective motive behind Jack's "generosity". In fact, HG.org was all about creating an anti-USHPA hang gliding community - so that Jack could then take the next step.*

BobK was nice enough to take many of those steps for Jack. But still, Jack needed to be in control. So, he watched as things developed and jumped on the critical opportunities to seize control from those who began following BobK and his ideal of a new National HG org.

Unfortunately, Jack Axaopoulos' goals of having control over a new National Organization were not compatible with BobK (or me, as first "informally" elected Chairman) being in charge. Jack NEEDED things to go HIS way (or the highway).

When I appointed John Borton as my Vice Chairman, that helped Jack immensely because he knew that "JB" agreed with him on, at least, the critical Range Voting system.** But then I took a break after something like 3 weeks of continual attention and effort in organizing the HGAA, and came back 10 -14 days later to find that JB (with Jack Axaopoulos' help) was running rough shod over the most basic concepts upon which the HGAA had been founded.

As a result, I "fired" JB. This, however, opened up the door for Jack Axaopoulos to begin screaming bloody murder, hurling false accusations and using the HGAA's new web site (utterly and completely under his control) to create a (Jack Axaopoulos) manufactured state of chaos. Jack's imaginary (yet effective) Chaos gave him the "justification" for effectively shutting down the site and seizing control of the HGAA.

In the ensuing days he rallied his own "troops" - those who had shown him the most devoted and unquestioned loyalty over on HG.org - and began "reforming" the HGAA to his liking. Those changes included and required that BobK and I be gone - banned from further participation on the HGAA web site.

As long as the record is maintained in HGAA's "history" archives, the proof is right there to see. Manipulation of votes and abuse of the Range voting method were rampant and obvious. Explanations transparent to a 4th grader were used to justify the inconsistencies. Other abusive actions were too blatant to ever be convincingly explained - but I think they tried.

So, It's all been about Jack Axaopoulos having "control". He can't maintain control if people are openly voicing their (often strong) disagreement with his methods. So, first, Jack's HGAA critics had to be banned from that site, then his HG.org critics had to be banned, then his Torry Hawks critics had to be banned.

Any and everywhere that Jack could, he acted to prevent anyone - who was or might be "bold" enough to point out the seriously questionable methods which he was using to take control over the HGAA - from being publicly heard.

As I look at things, it's that final step - where Jack banned people on the Torrey Hawks web site (where he is nothing more than an IT site guy/car taker) that identifies the depths of his problem with NEEDING seemingly absolute control. And that may not even be it. What Jack's actions demonstrate is a need for "reality" to fit with his version of things. When "reality" fits, you'd hardly know he's there. But when reality defies his interests and expectations - you better look out. That's the pattern that we have witnessed. It's pretty sad, actually.




* It's also interesting to note all those political threads that SG (Jack Axaopoulos) started on HG.org, which effectively allowed him to find and identify the HG.org users who where most aligned with his own political philosophies and positions as well as to identify those who were always ready to support him (essentially, his future SGAA co-mutineers and sheeple).

** The Range voting system, as I predicted, and as BobK has pointed out, has been used by the HGAA leadership in exactly the manipulative ways that demonstrate it's weakest points and most serious flaws.
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Re: Banning - Commentary

Postby Free » Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:02 am


Jack proves the nature of his character with abusive example after abusive example. Jack is all about "control". I've now heard a story about his "Lead Generation Program" from someone on the other (USHPA) side. Jack wanted to maintain control over that as well, except that it needed to be a USHPA run deal if the USHPA excepted it. But Jack could not give up control and USHPA declined Jack's (and Dennis') offer. But it was a good idea so USHPA created their own version - without it being controlled by Jack.



Good to see you back, Scott.
This really is about the nature of the character of all of us.
What side are people going to take?
What is our character/integrity when really put to the question?
Some have already been noted, sad to say.
Others need to speak up.

I wrote this earlier:

There really is a gang mentality at SGAA.
John Wright is trained in it.
I think Jack is just operating out of greed.
I believe he was honestly just led astray.
Dennis Cavagnaro has been a bad influence on him.
Jack started banning out of weakness. One time.. the easy way out of an argument.
He resorts to it again.. just one more time.. then again..
it becomes easier.. eventually a cowards' escape becomes bully 'power'.

Most people given power abuse it.
Jack started because he doesn't like to lose arguments.
Now he can't stop and it's making him look like a childish brat.
The more he spins and distorts, the worse it gets.
Jack Axaopoulos doesn't like the attention but he loves the power.
Can't have it both ways, Jack.
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Re: Banning - Commentary

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:10 am

I want to thank Tad for his post dated: 2018/12/15 18:02:20 UTC available at kitestrings.org.

Tad's post highlights quotes from Jack Axaopoulos at:
       http://www.hanggliding.org/bobkuczewski/

Here's what you'll find at Jack's site:

Bob Kuczewski - hypocrisy

Bob loves to draw analogies between hitler and forum owners for using reasonable moderation when dealing with unruly users who consistently break the rules. All while pretending he never, ever, touches anyones posts on his own forum. Of course, we have a record of his moderation. Why does Bob get special treatment and rules? Why is Bob allowed to change peoples posts, this gross violation of freedom of speech, according to Bob himself?

Bob swears he is different and will never touch a post ever, ever, ever, pink promise.

FranksQuotre.png


And then he DIRECTLY EDITS his users post on his own forum. The ULTIMATE sin, according to Bob.

DennisBobQuote.png


Looks pretty damning doesn't it?

Now let's look at it just a little more carefully ...

Notice that Jack Axaopoulos presents our filtering of the "f bomb" (back in 2010) as his only example of a post being changed (asterisks in place of 4 letter words). Notice how Jack quotes Dennis totally out of context. Notice how Jack ignores Dennis giving me permission to make those changes. If you want to see what REALLY happened, it's all right here in this topic from 2010. This whole topic is only 2 pages long. Please go back and read it (or even skim it) from the start. Pay special attention to the post by Dennis that Jack quoted. Pay special attention to that interaction and you'll get a good picture of the lies and distortions told by Jack Axaopoulos on hanggliding.org. And while you're here, pay attention to the first-hand testimonials given by both Scott and Warren back in 2010 and 2011.

Did you read it? Now read Jack's quote again (directly above). Do you see why hang gliding is in such a terrible mess in 2018? It's not all USHPA's fault.
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Re: Banning - Commentary

Postby wingspan33 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:55 pm

Bob, This topic from many years ago fits so well with what's going on now. Kind of like "History Repeating Itself".

It even mentions (or hints at?) members of sg.org not speaking up to support other forum members.

A number of members here should read this whole thread from beginning to end in order to gain some perspective on Joe's banning over on sg.org and the vile character of Jack the Axe.

The US Hawks does not have to be ALL about Jack the Axe and SG.org! But ignoring the BS that Jack the Axe pulls over on "his" site is an historically proven way to "condone" what he's doing.

[from - https://drlinsteiner.wordpress.com/quotes/ ]

“Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”

“History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.”

“In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

“Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.”

“We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people but for the appalling silence of the good people.”

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.”

“An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.”

“Success, recognition, and conformity are the bywords of the modern world where everyone seems to crave the anesthetizing security of being identified with the majority.”



[from - https://medium.com/@adamemanon/32-quote ... 07b5beaa7c ]


The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. (Albert Einstein)

All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent (Thomas Jefferson)

He who does not oppose evil, commands it to be done (Leonardo Da Vinci)

If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. (Desmond Tutu)

There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest it (Elie Wiesel)



THINK!
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Re: Banning - Commentary

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:53 pm

WOW!!

Thanks Scott for your gift of friendship and the gift of the quotes you've posted.

Some of them are familiar to me, but there are many I'd never seen. I was also unaware of the breadth of the authors who've shared that sentiment.

Thanks for the quotes and for your leadership during this difficult time in the U.S. Hawks history.
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