[Bob Kuczewski]

The issue of "currency" appears to be in question. Maybe we should examine what other organizations do.

USHPA doesn't have any currency requirements other than you pay them every year. If you got a rating 20 years ago and have paid every year but not flown once in those 20 years, then your rating is still good. But if you fly every single day, but have not been paying for some number of years, then I believe you need to be recertified through some process (which may require an instructor review and/or signoff) to get your ratings back.

I believe the FAA is different. I believe (and it's been a long time, so I welcome any updates) that your license is good for life, but you are not able to fly unless you pass regular physicals, regular (biennial?) flight reviews, and maintain some degree of currency in the category and type of aircraft you want to fly.

I personally think the FAA model is much better and will lead to better safety. But it does end up putting a burden on pilots. So the question is what degree of currency do we think is appropriate? Here are some options I pulled out of the air:

Option 1. No requirements at all. Ratings are good for life, and that's it.

Option 2. One flight per year for currency. If it's been longer than that, then you need to be checked out by someone (instructor or not?) who is current. This could be as simple as your buddy asking you a few questions or doing whatever they feel is appropriate for them to sign you off.

Option 3. Same as Option 2, but if it's been longer than 5 years since you've flown then you need a current instructor to sign you off. The requirements for the sign off are up to the instructor since he (or she) will be taking on roughly the same responsibility for your flying as an original instructor.

These options aren't intended to form any kind of coherent plan, but they are intended to get us thinking about what we think is tolerable and appropriate.

Thanks for any comments.

[DarthVader]

Yeah, your right Rick, for righ now.... There would have to be some major change like the FAA taking over the sport of hang gliding to tell people what they are qualified to fly, and if they brake the rules.... Well, we all know what the FAA does to people who brake aviation rules. I never thought that we were ever going to need passport to cross into Mexico neither.

[terryJm]

My position will have to go with Rick, Bill, and Bob on this issue; The swat team approach in S. America, seems a little extream, but if we don't stop the P-P from flying into the wedding cake, WE will see extream responce. At some point, as the responsible pilot, We must accept the word of another pilot! So, yes; grandfather clause, yes; lifetime rateings, and yes, if he flies like an H4, talks like an H4, walks like an H4, and needs an H4 to fly the site, then lets award the pilot an H4. When P-P flyers begin demonstrating the mental responsability to become pilots, we may at that time consider where they belong in a Hang gliding organization, if at all! Thanks for the forum to discuse these concepts openly, later, Terry

[Rick Masters]

The requirements for the sign off are up to the instructor since he (or she) will be taking on roughly the same responsibility for your flying as an original instructor.

I have friends who have not flown in many years and sought out an instructor to help them get "current." But it is my belief that no one bears any responsibility for my flying but me - 100%.

The U$PA has their little moneymaking system in play. No cops are necessary because it is a fraud.

Do the Hawks want to have cops or pilots? We earned our ratings. Don't bug us. The pilots who want to be cops should volunteer now so Bob can get an idea of the landscape. (As if he didn't know, already!)

[Bob Kuczewski]

The U$PA has their little moneymaking system in play. No cops are necessary because it is a fraud.

USHPA's "currency" requirement is that you give them currency ($$) every year. As long as you pay them regularly, they'll keep you on the current and "ready to fly" list. If you stop paying, then it doesn't matter how much you fly, you're still considered "uncurrent" in their system.

The one thing that the Hawks will do is to decouple the money from the currency (flight currency in this case!). We will never consider anyone "uncurrent" just because they haven't paid in a year ... or a decade. The only thing that determines flying currency is flying ... not paying.

But once we've removed money from the equation, the question remains as to whether pilots should maintain any form of actual flying currency to be able to fly. I'm on the fence. Safety (and the FAA model) tip me toward some kind of actual currency requirement. But freedom and personal responsibility tip me toward leaving it up to the pilot.

If we ever get to be big enough so that this really matters ... I think it should be decided by the members through their votes. I'm not sure how I'd cast my own vote at this point.

Do the Hawks want to have cops or pilots?

I know the answer to that one. We want pilots!!!   

[jaybird78]

I have to say after reading this thread, I agree 100% with Rick. I was issued a Ushpa flight log yesterday, quite frankly I have no desire to use it. Considering I'm a member of this association, it only seems logical I be rated by it. Look I just want to fly like many of you, all the people trying to control others is what's fu**ing everything up for the rest of us, not the "yahoos." I think many have lost touch with what hangliding represents, and that's freedom! Furthermore I would view anyone cutting my wires as an infrigment of my civil liberties and am prepared to defend that to the death, are you?

[Bob Kuczewski]

Hello JayBird78!!!

Thanks for digging around and reading - and reviving - this topic.

As you can see, this topic was discussed way back when the US Hawks was so small that we weren't on anyone's radar scope. We're still pretty small, but at least Google is finding us and often listing us in the number 2 slot when you search for "Hang Gliding Association".

So this is a good topic to start discussing again, and I welcome your input.

Unfortunately, from a practical perspective, I still have to currently encourage you to join USHPA (if you haven't already) and go through their process (if you aren't already) to be able to fly. I would love to be able to suggest that you tell USHPA to take a flying leap, but unfortunately would severely limit your ability to fly many many sites at this time.

USHPA has a monopoly, and it turns my stomach to send them money every year (especially after all they've done to harm our local hang gliding club and local hang gliding pilots). But I have to do it, because that's where we are at this point in time (render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's).

But while I recommend (for your own ability to enjoy this great sport) that you join USHPA, you can also be helping to build an alternative - the US Hawks. The only thing USHPA has that we don't have is a large membership base. If we can grow to be even a reasonable fraction of USHPA's size, then we can start to offer the kinds of freedom that you suggest.

By the way, it's somewhat funny to note that a few years back, USHPA adopted the slogan:

    "This is Flying. This is Freedom."

Any thoughts on what should replace "Freedom" in that phrase?      (remember, this forum restricts certain words )

Thanks for your comments JayBird78. It may take a while, but with your help and the help of many others, I hope we'll look back someday and talk about the days when the US Hawks was just getting started ... and we were there.