[Bob Kuczewski]

The opening of the Terms of Service Discussion suggested either a ratification of the first sentence or possible changes to the eight points of agreement as a condition of US Hawks membership
...
The wording of your motion could be later interpreted as the board ratifying even the penalty phase without benefit of discussion or possible modification.

Hi Bill,

I think you're right. If you want to tackle just the first sentence, then I withdraw my motion and invite you to make one regarding the first sentence.

As a side note, the kitestrings.org site was founded slightly after the US Hawks and they also use phpBB software from the same time period. I just checked their Terms of Service, and they appear to be the same as ours:

Kite Strings - Registration

By accessing “Kite Strings” (hereinafter “we”, “us”, “our”, “Kite Strings”, “http://www.kitestrings.org”), you agree to be legally bound by the following terms. If you do not agree to be legally bound by all of the following terms then please do not access and/or use “Kite Strings”. We may change these at any time and we’ll do our utmost in informing you, though it would be prudent to review this regularly yourself as your continued usage of “Kite Strings” after changes mean you agree to be legally bound by these terms as they are updated and/or amended.

Our hosting is provided by ProphpBB (hereinafter “they”, “them”, “their”, “Pro phpBB”, “www.prophpbb.com”), which is a forum web hosting provider of PhpBB software, a bulletin board solution released under the GPL license. The ProphpBB hosting service and phpBB software only facilitates internet based discussions. ProphpBB is not responsible for what we allow and/or disallow as permissible content and/or conduct.

Our forum software is powered by phpBB (hereinafter “they”, “them”, “their”, “phpBB software”, “www.phpbb.com”, “phpBB Group”, “phpBB Teams”) which is a bulletin board solution released under the “General Public License” (hereinafter “GPL”) and can be downloaded from http://www.phpbb.com. The phpBB software only facilitates internet based discussions, the phpBB Group are not responsible for what we allow and/or disallow as permissible content and/or conduct. For further information about phpBB, please see: http://www.phpbb.com/.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “Kite Strings” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that “Kite Strings” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent, neither “Kite Strings” nor phpBB shall be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.

[Bill Cummings]

Thanks Bob,
I make a MOTION TO RATIFY the first sentence in the Terms of Service (TOS) containing the 8 points to remain as they stand:

1. abusive
2. obscene
3. vulgar
4. slanderous
5. hateful
6. threatening
7. sexually-orientated
8. any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, ……..the country where “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” is ……..hosted or International Law.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Thanks Bob,
I make a MOTION TO RATIFY the first sentence in the Terms of Service (TOS) containing the 8 points to remain as they stand:

1. abusive
2. obscene
3. vulgar
4. slanderous
5. hateful
6. threatening
7. sexually-orientated
8. any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, ……..the country where “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” is ……..hosted or International Law.

I SECOND Bill's motion, and request that we vote on the first sentence of the Terms of Service.

For clarity, here's the full sentence:

“You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” is hosted or International Law."

==========================
Correction for further clarification: My reference to "first sentence" was in the context of Bill's first post which skipped the first two paragraphs of the full Terms of Service. For clarity, I've included our full Terms of Service below, and I've highlighted (in large, red, bold) the sentence that we're voting to approve in the current motion.

By accessing “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” (hereinafter “we”, “us”, “our”, “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association”, “http://ushawks.org/forum”), you agree to be legally bound by the following terms. If you do not agree to be legally bound by all of the following terms then please do not access and/or use “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association”. We may change these at any time and we’ll do our utmost in informing you, though it would be prudent to review this regularly yourself as your continued usage of “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” after changes mean you agree to be legally bound by these terms as they are updated and/or amended.

Our forums are powered by phpBB (hereinafter “they”, “them”, “their”, “phpBB software”, “www.phpbb.com”, “phpBB Group”, “phpBB Teams”) which is a bulletin board solution released under the “General Public License” (hereinafter “GPL”) and can be downloaded from http://www.phpbb.com. The phpBB software only facilitates internet based discussions, the phpBB Group are not responsible for what we allow and/or disallow as permissible content and/or conduct. For further information about phpBB, please see: https://www.phpbb.com/.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent, neither “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” nor phpBB shall be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.

[Bill Cummings]

Thanks Bob,
I make a MOTION TO RATIFY the first sentence in the Terms of Service (TOS) containing the 8 points to remain as they stand:

1. abusive
2. obscene
3. vulgar
4. slanderous
5. hateful
6. threatening
7. sexually-orientated
8. any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, ……..the country where “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” is ……..hosted or International Law.

I SECOND Bill's motion, and request that we vote on the first sentence of the Terms of Service.

For clarity, here's the full sentence:

“You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” is hosted or International Law."

==========================
Correction for further clarification: My reference to "first sentence" was in the context of Bill's first post which skipped the first two paragraphs of the full Terms of Service. For clarity, I've included our full Terms of Service below, and I've highlighted (in large, red, bold) the sentence that we're voting to approve in the current motion.

By accessing “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” (hereinafter “we”, “us”, “our”, “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association”, “http://ushawks.org/forum”), you agree to be legally bound by the following terms. If you do not agree to be legally bound by all of the following terms then please do not access and/or use “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association”. We may change these at any time and we’ll do our utmost in informing you, though it would be prudent to review this regularly yourself as your continued usage of “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” after changes mean you agree to be legally bound by these terms as they are updated and/or amended.

Our forums are powered by phpBB (hereinafter “they”, “them”, “their”, “phpBB software”, “www.phpbb.com”, “phpBB Group”, “phpBB Teams”) which is a bulletin board solution released under the “General Public License” (hereinafter “GPL”) and can be downloaded from http://www.phpbb.com. The phpBB software only facilitates internet based discussions, the phpBB Group are not responsible for what we allow and/or disallow as permissible content and/or conduct. For further information about phpBB, please see: https://www.phpbb.com/.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent, neither “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” nor phpBB shall be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.

  Bill C. Vote to approve the motion.  

[Bob Kuczewski]

I make a MOTION TO RATIFY the first sentence in the Terms of Service (TOS) containing the 8 points to remain as they stand:

1. abusive
2. obscene
3. vulgar
4. slanderous
5. hateful
6. threatening
7. sexually-orientated
8. any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, ……..the country where “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” is ……..hosted or International Law.

For clarity, here's the full sentence:

“You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” is hosted or International Law."

  Bob Kuczewsk: I also cast my vote to approve the motion.  

[SamKellner]

MOTION TO RATIFY the first sentence

I vote yes

[Bob Kuczewski]

Thanks Sam.

That makes 3 votes out of 5, so the issue is decided.

To be clear, I've included our current Terms of Service here, and I've highlighted the section that we approved with this vote.

By accessing “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” (hereinafter “we”, “us”, “our”, “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association”, “http://ushawks.org/forum”), you agree to be legally bound by the following terms. If you do not agree to be legally bound by all of the following terms then please do not access and/or use “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association”. We may change these at any time and we’ll do our utmost in informing you, though it would be prudent to review this regularly yourself as your continued usage of “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” after changes mean you agree to be legally bound by these terms as they are updated and/or amended.

Our forums are powered by phpBB (hereinafter “they”, “them”, “their”, “phpBB software”, “www.phpbb.com”, “phpBB Group”, “phpBB Teams”) which is a bulletin board solution released under the “General Public License” (hereinafter “GPL”) and can be downloaded from http://www.phpbb.com. The phpBB software only facilitates internet based discussions, the phpBB Group are not responsible for what we allow and/or disallow as permissible content and/or conduct. For further information about phpBB, please see: https://www.phpbb.com/.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent, neither “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” nor phpBB shall be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.

Since this is our first completed vote, and we haven't established any procedures for handling completed votes, I am taking it upon myself to institute the following procedure.

Once a vote has reached a decision threshold (3 out of 5 with the current Board), I will move it to the public area within a "reasonable time" (the amount of "reasonable time" might be a good topic for discussion). Any Board Members who haven't voted may still vote in the topic (for an additional "reasonable time" to be determined). At the end of that time the topic will be locked and retained as a record of our discussion and our decision.

Of course all of this is subject to discussion and modification as we go. Our goal will be to develop a system where Board members can participate quickly and efficiently within a structure that we all understand and agree with.

[JoeF]

So, to be clear: First sentence of the paragraph 3.
The vote reached 3 which is a majority of 5.
============================================
Couple of furtherings on the matter:
1. What is the bite when one transgresses? Would it not be on balance to declare consequence? What occurs when one breaks the agreement of that sentence?
2. Who will judge what is "threatening"? Will posting off topic on every topic thread with PG matter be "threatening" to the forum community? Would continual off-topic posting be "threatening" to the forum community here?

~JoeF

[Bill Cummings]

So, to be clear: First sentence of the paragraph 3.
The vote reached 3 which is a majority of 5.
============================================
Couple of furtherings on the matter:
1. What is the bite when one transgresses? Would it not be on balance to declare consequence? What occurs when one breaks the agreement of that sentence?
2. Who will judge what is "threatening"? Will posting off topic on every topic thread with PG matter be "threatening" to the forum community? Would continual off-topic posting be "threatening" to the forum community here?

~JoeF

Joe, Sorry for the leaping ahead past the definition part of the TOS to the Do's and Don't's part of the TOS. I'll try to keep things in order from now on.
Concerning:
[quote="JoeF"]So, to be clear: First sentence of the paragraph 3.
The vote reached 3 which is a majority of 5.
That is correct.

As to the penalty phase of What is the bite when one transgresses? And to answer the rest of your point I. and Point 2.
We will have to do the final portion of the TOS to be done with the whole TOS.
The remaining part of the TOS to be discussed, approved as is or modified is below in red.
By accessing “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” (hereinafter “we”, “us”, “our”, “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association”, “http://ushawks.org/forum”), you agree to be legally bound by the following terms. If you do not agree to be legally bound by all of the following terms then please do not access and/or use “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association”. We may change these at any time and we’ll do our utmost in informing you, though it would be prudent to review this regularly yourself as your continued usage of “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” after changes mean you agree to be legally bound by these terms as they are updated and/or amended.

Our forums are powered by phpBB (hereinafter “they”, “them”, “their”, “phpBB software”, “www.phpbb.com”, “phpBB Group”, “phpBB Teams”) which is a bulletin board solution released under the “General Public License” (hereinafter “GPL”) and can be downloaded from http://www.phpbb.com. The phpBB software only facilitates internet based discussions, the phpBB Group are not responsible for what we allow and/or disallow as permissible content and/or conduct. For further information about phpBB, please see: https://www.phpbb.com/.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent, neither “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” nor phpBB shall be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.
I think this should be opened in a new topic and not under the current one.

[Bob Kuczewski]

I think this should be opened in a new topic and not under the current one.

Agreed. I've started another topic as you've suggested.  

So, to be clear: First sentence of the paragraph 3.
The vote reached 3 which is a majority of 5.

That's correct (consistent with Bill's response above). One of the downsides of our voting system is that people can end up being "Hawaii" during a presidential election. The result can be decided before they get a chance to vote.  

However, people are encouraged to vote even after we've reached majority to put themselves on the record. The "final" result would include those votes as well ("5 to 0" for example). So if you'd like to vote on this topic, please do. In fact, I'd like to see everyone vote on every topic.

Also, the whole issue of time limits for voting isn't being addressed yet. That's something else that we still need to work on.

Couple of furtherings on the matter:
1. What is the bite when one transgresses? Would it not be on balance to declare consequence? What occurs when one breaks the agreement of that sentence?
2. Who will judge what is "threatening"? Will posting off topic on every topic thread with PG matter be "threatening" to the forum community? Would continual off-topic posting be "threatening" to the forum community here?

~JoeF

We haven't ratified the "bite" part yet, but I've started a topic for it. The Terms of Service also don't address the other issues you've mentioned. We could add those to the Terms of Service or create a separate set of rules "SOPs" which further define what we feel is acceptable or not. Just like with USHPA, I anticipate that those SOPs may be more fluid than the legal agreement in the Terms of Service.