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Re: USHPA Expulsion Proceeding

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:40 pm

billcummings wrote:
bobk wrote:Rick, your comments about competition are right on target. Competition is what made us great, and that's why we have anti-trust laws. If USHPA uses its monopoly to ground me, I'll have a lot more time to look into them.

Ma Bell comes to mind. Bob are you old enough for this saying?

I'm sad to say ... yes. :cry:

I think the breakup of AT&T was my first exposure to the term "anti-trust".

Do you remember what a cool thing it was to actually be able to go out to Radio Shack and buy your very own telephone? And they were amazingly inexpensive!!

That's competition, and that's what's been missing from the sport of hang gliding.
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Re: USHPA Expulsion Proceeding

Postby wingspan33 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:54 pm

The behavior upon which the board has determined that you should be expelled from the association falls into the following categories:
1. Creation of at least two national hang gliding organizations with the stated purpose of competing with USHPA, one of which you currently control


The USHPA is full of it!

Bob hasn't created any National hang gliding organizations. He may have inspired MANY USHPA members to coordinate themselves in a move in that direction, but that's far from "Creation of at least two national hang gliding organizations . . . ". That's just laughable.

The Torrey Hawks are what I would call "real" and since they are a USHPA Chapter, then that makes them even MORE real. And they, as a U$hPA Chapter, seem to be very PRO U$hPA.

But when it comes down to the HGAA, Jack Ax is the one who USHPA should be expelling. Heck, who was it that was the beginning interim Chairman of the HGAA? Hmmmmmm, . . . can't quite remember his name. :wave: Not Bob K that's for sure!

And the US Hawks, . . . It's a forum web site. Much talk and some discussion. Democratic ideals. No secret voting. No L.L.C. or CO. or Inc. after the name. And the degree to which Bob K "controls" the US Hawks involves no more than what Davis Straub or Jack Ax or the moderators of any of those PG forum sites do it keep them running.

Talk about turning a mole hill into a MOUNTAIN. That's what the U$hPA is doing in its above statement. (IMHO I think that the U$hPA is in an organizational paranoid delusional state*)

But there are eyes here watching as the U$hPA degrades further into a PG promoting and profiteering mechanism. When it uses its "power" (or intentional inaction) to KILL one or many pilot's ability to fly their wing at most US flying sites (or even one), then notice is taken.

And if there are more of you out there who can't fly or have stopped flying because of how the U$hPA operates, then register and log in. Tell us your story. We (many members of this web site/forum) want things to improve for hang glider pilots in the US.

Time to sign off.






* I'm not a psychologist, with a focus on NFP Corporate mindset/cultural flaws, and therefore could be wrong. But such dysfunctional states do exist and can lead to businesses heading off in some bad directions.
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Re: USHPA Expulsion Proceeding

Postby Rick Masters » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:33 pm

If you use the AT&T analogy, don't forget Bellcore. When the Feds allowed AT&T to survive, they were required to spin off Bell Labs as part of the deal. And a big part of that deal was that Bell Labs' inventions had to be OPEN SOURCE. It had to freely share its discoveries with its competitors. It was a huge gift to the public. It played the leading role transforming the locked-in post war world into our modern super-competitive one:

Consider what Bell Labs achieved. For a long stretch of the 20th century, it was the most innovative scientific organization in the world. On any list of its inventions, the most notable is probably the transistor, invented in 1947, which is now the building block of all digital products and contemporary life. These tiny devices can accomplish a multitude of tasks. The most basic is the amplification of an electric signal. But with small bursts of electricity, transistors can be switched on and off, and effectively be made to represent a “bit” of information, which is digitally expressed as a 1 or 0. Billions of transistors now reside on the chips that power our phones and computers.

Bell Labs produced a startling array of other innovations, too. The silicon solar cell, the precursor of all solar-powered devices, was invented there. Two of its researchers were awarded the first patent for a laser, and colleagues built a host of early prototypes. (Every DVD player has a laser, about the size of a grain of rice, akin to the kind invented at Bell Labs.)

Bell Labs created and developed the first communications satellites; the theory and development of digital communications; and the first cellular telephone systems. What’s known as the charge-coupled device, or CCD, was created there and now forms the basis for digital photography.

Bell Labs also built the first fiber optic cable systems and subsequently created inventions to enable gigabytes of data to zip around the globe. It was no slouch in programming, either. Its computer scientists developed Unix and C, which form the basis for today’s most essential operating systems and computer languages.

And these are just a few of the practical technologies. Some Bell Labs researchers composed papers that significantly extended the boundaries of physics, chemistry, astronomy and mathematics. Other Bell Labs engineers focused on creating extraordinary new processes (rather than new products) for Ma Bell’s industrial plants. In fact, “quality control” — the statistical analysis now used around the world as a method to ensure high-quality manufactured products — was first applied by Bell Labs mathematicians.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/opini ... .html?_r=0

So you can think of the U$hPA as the AT&T that gobbled up everything and squeezed out all competition (U.S. Hawks). They owned the transcontinental telephone network (flying sites) and required anyone using their system to buy the equipment from their subsidiary, Western Electric (insurance). Finally they were spanked by the legal system and forced to divest of things they had developed (paragliding) except communications (hang gliding). There you go.

Bob hasn't created any National hang gliding organizations. Talk about turning a mole hill into a MOUNTAIN.

No kidding. You gotta drink the kool-aid to dance on that bandwagon! But maybe they can conjure up something.
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Re: USHPA Expulsion Proceeding

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:58 pm

Merlin wrote:I probably have a very naive understanding of this, but...

It seems everything pivots on the insurance issue.


Actually, you've honed in on an important aspect of the situation. USHPA's monopoly on flying in the US stems from their monopoly on insurance in the US. If we want to free ourselves from this kind of ridiculous "Expulsion" persecution, we're going to need to break USHPA's monopoly on insurance.

The key is numbers. We will need to grow the US Hawks to be large enough to afford our own insurance. That's why I really encourage our members to go out and advertise to bring in more members. Add a link to the US Hawks in your signature lines. Start discussions about the open voting records of the US Hawks Board of Directors. Post advertisements about the US Hawks upcoming Otto Lilienthal meet. That's what will help us grow, and that's what will help us get insurance. It's all a numbers game.
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Re: USHPA Expulsion Proceeding

Postby Merlin » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:22 am

Well, its been a few years since I left USHPA. But the comment Davis made that "The USHPA is an insurance company with a tandem exemption." - is not really intended literally.

Apparently (dated 2013), these are the guys doing the insuring: http://firstflightinsurance.com/Site/375021952/airsports.asp

Certainly 3rd party liability seems to be the main thrust, one wonders how the two aircraft compare as actual risks to on lookers. Hang gliders certainly have a higher mass and potentially damaging structure... but a collapsed paraglider certainly could drag an old lady off a cliff.
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Re: USHPA Expulsion Proceeding

Postby Rick Masters » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:35 am

A full page ad in "Hang Gliding & Paragliding" magazine should do it.
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Re: USHPA Expulsion Proceeding

Postby Bill Cummings » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:48 am

Scott,
You were in too much of a hurry to pick apart the first misstatement in the expulsion letter to Bob and you blew right past the actual first misstatement:
Opening misstatement made by:
Martin Palmaz
Executive Director
US Hang Gliding & Paragliding Association
"Dear Mr. Kuczewski," :roll:
Last edited by Bill Cummings on Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: USHPA Expulsion Proceeding

Postby JoeF » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:06 am

Using the company's online form, I placed a request:
To First Flight insuring company wrote:What opportunity might you express for we who want to obtain recreational hang gliding third-party insurance apart from USHPA. We recognize that we do not want to be associated or actuarily connected with canopy soaring parachutes (paragliders). Our airframed hang gliding sector will one day be fully separate from the USHPA which has become dominate by the soaring parachutes (paragliders). The soaring parachute culture and fatality record and collapse of integrity as aircraft are some of the reasons while the USHPA can no longer be home to the airframed hang glider sector.
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Re: USHPA Expulsion Proceeding

Postby BigBird » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:52 am

Posted this on the HGorg - we'll see if it lasts...
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Re: USHPA Expulsion Proceeding

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:09 am

Hi Phil,

Now that was a very classy way to address the issue. Thanks very much!!!!

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org
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