[Bill Cummings]

Free,

A reliable, instantaneous release at the right time, without removing hands from the control bar, IMO, would have been the only hope to recover from that situation.

Pictures indicate to me that the tow line was at the crash scene and was never released.
I'm thinking now that towing instruction should have any student taught during ground school
the basics of weight shift control and how to release from tow should the instructor undergo a medical event that
would prevent the instructor from releasing and steering the glider.
Lessons to the student on where the BRS deployment handle is and when and how to deploy it might improve the odds.

Bill,

These are all very good comments. But imagine trying to (pre) "instruct" an 11 year old boy on how to do these things. It's not likely to work. That's why a minimum age requirement should be set for all u$hPa tandem instructional flights.

When my two daughters were little they begged me to take them for a ride in the hang glider. I told them both that I would when they turned eighteen years old.
But by that time they were totally sick of watching hang gliding as a captive audience riding along in the boat.

[brianscharp]

I gave my 11 year old nephew a tandem ride at Goat Rock.

[wingspan33]

I gave my 11 year old nephew a tandem ride at Goat Rock.

Now, now! It had to be an Instructional Flight to be (FAA) legal. If "rides" were okay within the FAA's Tandem Exemption then, yea, an 11 year old should be able to do it.

But gosh, you know what you just caused me to remember, . . .

My local u$hPa RD took his son for a ATOL truck tow tandem when he (his son) was only 4 years old ( ). In fact, I was manning the video camera during the event.

How is it possible to give a 4 year old a hang gliding lesson (if the presumption is that a mature mind is doing the learning)? Actually, . . . it's not possible.

PS - It's certainly a significant experience for a young person to go on a tandem. Absolutely no doubt about that.

[wingspan33]

Some kind of new news here. The Oz Report's front Page has a link to the Las Vegas Review-Journal's story about Harrison not having a permit to operate his business on BLM property. A few hours ago the link indicated it was from 4 days ago. But the story was from 3/31/15! Magically the link is now shown as being from 9 days ago.

The Oz Report seems to be playing catch-up. I think a link to that story was posted a few days ago (here or on the OZ). That seems to be when Davis or Scare actually noticed it.

It's clearly a valid source - with a BLM employee being quoted about the facts. Either way, found late or found early, it's makes a BIG difference in things. Obviously, J K Harrison was not operating his tandem tow business legally. That puts him in violation of FAA's (u$hPa) Tandem Exemption. Harrison was a renegade, but also a u$hPa Certified Tandem Pilot??? How is that possible?

The old adage says: "Give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves." It seems to fit for both the u$hPa as well as J K Harrison.

u$hPa said: "We don't have to take our tandem exemption seriously, the FAA isn't even looking in our direction!

Harrison said: "u$hPa Certified Tandem pilots are ALWAYS giving joy/thrill rides. I will too, and who's to care if I don't have a permit to be on BLM property? Not me!

It's time for certain people to wake up and smell the (very real) coffee!

[msoaring]

I remember getting pretty excited about ATOL when it first came out, mostly because of the clean air it presented the wing and the constant tension pay-out (for safety), but also because we were plagued by snaggy little bushes in our area and ATOL could do away with the tow line coming in contact with the ground if you did it right. As for looking pretty, well-maintained equipment is the priority, looking good comes in second. Still, at the time I did not yet appreciate the complexity that towing with weight shift presented. Nor did I realize how much luck was in play for a lot of hang glider pilots experimenting with towing, since I was too cautious to try it myself.

I was out at El Mirage on a disappointing, low wind day with my sailcar. Bill Bennett's group was giving tows when Trip Mellinger showed up. They offered him a tow in their new wing. I don't remember what it was but it was years after Trip had made a name for himself flying north from Cerro Gordo with Gene Blythe on Pheonix 6Bs and he mentioned he hadn't flown in a year. Well, this was an obvious recipe for disaster: New wing, unfamiliar harness, and maybe little or no towing experience.

He ran and got off okay, then flew up to maybe 300 feet but he didn't release. The truck saw that he was flying okay and slowed down, and the tow line hung down from Trip's glider in a big arc. Then he did the most unbelievable thing. With the truck still heading west, he executed a 180 and flew away from it, still attached to the tow line. I was expecting the line to snap taut and tumble the glider, but at the last moment, he turned back and came down and landed by the truck, none-too-happy, if I remember correctly.

Maybe he knew what he was doing and maybe he didn't. That was when I determined to never tow. There was just too much stuff going on and I had mountains in my backyard, so what was the point?

Wow!! I'm shocked that someone other than myself knows of, (or remembers), the incident with Trip Mellinger out at El Mirage dry lake. That was not "Bill Bennett's group", that was me and my hang gliding friend Oscar Higgins. We designed and built the tow system so we could have a more dependable starting point for our cross country adventures. While we were towing, some people showed up and were watching us, when Trip asked if he could "give it a try". At the time I thought Trip was a "sky god" and decided he could handle the fairly straight forward instructions with the tow system. Well, you saw what happened! That was my (brand new) Wills Wing 180 Duck and High Energy Sports harness. I was shocked when he turned tail without releasing the tow line, I thought he was going to die, and destroy my new hang diver! You can imagine my relief when, at the last possible moment, he turned into the wind and landed safely.

We all laughed later when someone mentioned that his rapid, (without a word), departure was most likely due to the sudden need for laundry detail, hahaha!
I learned a very good lesson that day: DON'T EVER LET SOMEONE ELSE USE YOUR GLIDER! (even if they appear to be qualified).

Since you were there, maybe we met that day? I believe we were towing hang gliders very early on the towing hang glider time line. Eventually we decided the system was not fulfilling our need to get up and go, and there were safety issues with the multi-ground crew process.

Thanks for the rememories!

Keith

Ps Maybe Trip is lurking and will chime in on what he was thinking/doing during that moment?

[Rick Masters]

Hi Keith,

Welcome to the Hawks and thanks for the clarification. Do you remember the year? 1980? I doubt that I introduced myself. I was a just curious onlooker and you guys were real busy. I knew about Mellinger and shared the same "Skygod" awe (but reserved mostly for Worthington). A 35-mile cross-country. Wow! Skygod! [My avatar is me directly over Cerro Gordo in 1986 on an out-and-return from Mazourka, returning north at 17,999+].

That was a year or two before I made Aoli, Comet Clones & Pod People. I was taking mechanical engineering at Cal Poly SLO and flying Cuesta Ridge and Plowshare a lot with Bob Dunn, Bill Dodson and Carlos Miralles. I was interested in towing and was thinking about trying it when I saw Mellinger at El Mirage. That was unsettling. I decided it wasn't for me. I had mountains with 9,000-foot launch sites in my back yard and a 4WD with racks (and a Honda Trail 70 to leave at the LZ when I couldn't find a driver), so it was hardly a pressing need.

Around the time I was running the XC Pilots Association in the Owens, maybe 1985, I remember Greg deWolf and "Air America" with, I think, Cindy Drozda and Ian Huss, coming through the Owens on their way to the east coast. They were getting phenomenal distances just following the highway on consecutive tows.

But I kept an accident database and towing was always the most dangerous way to go in those days. I never got involved in it.

[Merlin]

The Duck was hard enough to land in the best of conditions. If Trip landed it with a tow rope attached he deserves the sky god title.

[Bill Cummings]

Back in the old days of Moyes stainless steel control frames made of four hundred series stainless steel we had a stainless steel release at the center of the base tube and two more at the top of the control frame. Once we decided to unhook the bolt from the (I can’t remember his name cg bracket - Brock? That doesn’t sound right.) anyway we laid the glider flat on the ground while we water skied. In doing so we accidentally bent the upper two releases so that we couldn’t release either one. (This was before 911.)
After a pop start off of the beach I couldn’t release the two upper releases.
I kept spreading my legs signaling slow and then climbed up into the control frame, stood on the base tube, backwards, (not kidding) to inspect the upper releases. I couldn’t figure out why I was able earlier to hook the two climb restricting V bridle, rope, loop, releases into each hook and now couldn’t make them let go.
Steering while standing backwards on the base tube was proving to be a very difficult task so I dropped back into prone in the Moyes Water Harness and Belly Band and signaled slow until I brought the glider with Moyes Floats back to the surface of the lake. I over flew the 3/8” polypro tow rope and found out quickly that you can’t drag even 100’ of 3/8” rope in the water without it nose diving you into the lake.
EDIT: Thank God for water.

[wingspan33]

Hey Merlin,

I owned a 160 Duck and it was "fun" to land. I have a picture taken by a friend of me in full flair. The wing tips are still at a nicely positive angle of attack while the nose is stalled. Next step, the nose falls forward and you WHACK in. The problem was the keel pocket. It did not allow for enough push out to cause the tips to stall out at nearly the same time as the root cord.

I would say, however, that the simple addition of a (limp?) tow line would hardly effect an otherwise "normal" WW Duck landing. If Trip was a Sky God then I and a bunch of other Duck pilots would also qualify.

PS - The Duck was the first glider I "looped". But that's another story.

Jean Lake is not such a pleasant subject.

[JoeF]

Davis has CLOSED the topic Two Dead on Hang Glider at Oz Report.
Bold and red added here by me. But the topic answer upon edit or post:
"This topic is locked: you can not edit posts or make replies."

It will be interesting WHY he closed the topic.

  Davis, why have you closed that topic?  

The topic remains open here in US Hawks forum. There is yet a great deal yet to discuss about the incident.

Exploratory wondering by questions of WHY he closed the topic might even open up some matter about the incident itself. So, some questions that might help open up a resolution of the closure rationale: [The following are speculative questions only. ]

== Decision not to manage some posters posting personal slights?
== Was there a letter from Ayrs' parents' lawyer to cease opening the matter in public?
== Have some lawsuits been filed?
== Has the u$hPa pressed him to close the topic for some Herr push?
== Could the incident affect the Hamby case?
== Did the expulsion motion's lava flow affect the vulnerability of u$hPa in the Harrison-Ayrs matter?
== Does discussing the Jean Lake incident affect the commercial tandem waiver from FAA?
== Is there a fresh Davis decision to stop discussing towing safety matters?
== Did the title of the topic become too heavy? [We have a softer title for the tragic incident here in US Hawks forum.]
==
==

Note: Hanggliding.org still has open its discussion of the topic under title: Tandem crash in LV (speculation thread)