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Re: WARNING: Crestline Forum Changes Posts

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:44 am

JoeF wrote:Posted at CSS:
on Mon, 11/09/2015 - 09:36

RIGHTING

David Hards,

       Changing people's words and deleting fair-toned messages has the potential of destroying CSS Forum. Please reconstruct the original posts and messages. Have you received BOD approval for the destructive actions? Revoking posting privileges to an active strong member who helps the hang gliding community because you do not like his political tone places a process that could topple the treasured CSS forum which has up to this time been sparkling exemplary in fairness of opinions.

     Hoping you resolve to right things,

     Else,

       Best of Lift to you and yours,

       Joe Faust


Very nicely said Joe.

There's an insanity that's sweeping through our society (and our sport) that's reminiscent of the early Nazi era. People swept up by this insanity are all too eager to throw away the hard earned principles of fairness, openness, and debate in order to gain the political advantage that they want in the moment. I guess every generation has to learn that from scratch ... but it's painful to watch.
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Re: WARNING: Crestline Forum Changes Posts

Postby Bill Cummings » Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:06 am

Crestline Soaring Society,
Just so you know how things are supposed to be done by a moderator, here is a US Hawks website communication among it's members:

1) Joe's first post had a typo in it that he didn't catch until after his post. In the allotted edit time he went back and corrected his typo.

2) Joe saw that I had quoted his post capturing his typo, which either only I, or with my permission, bobk could correct.

3) Joe contacted Bob to asked if he would contact me to make the correction in my quote reference, in order to eliminate any confusion.

4) Bob called me, explained Joe's wishes, and, only after getting my permission, Bob made the correction on my behalf.
Joe's typo I quoted before he corrected..JPG
Joe's typo I quoted before he corrected..JPG (26.01 KiB) Viewed 4472 times

Joe caught his typo & corrected..JPG
Joe caught his typo & corrected..JPG (27.81 KiB) Viewed 4472 times

With my permission 1st bob corrected 1 word in my Quote..JPG
With my permission 1st bob corrected 1 word in my Quote..JPG (44.19 KiB) Viewed 4472 times

MODERATORS THIS IS HOW THINGS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DONE.
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Re: WARNING: Crestline Forum Changes Posts

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:54 am

Thanks Bill!!!

Making a few phone calls when needed to get things right is what moderation is all about.

Those who appreciate that effort will find a happy home at the US Hawks.

Bob
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Re: WARNING: Crestline Forum Changes Posts

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:03 pm

NMERider (Jonathan Dietch) makes great hang gliding videos. But his recent posts show a darker side.

NMERider replied on Mon, 11/09/2015 - 10:37
Oh Noes! It's a Gore Fest

Paying their homage to Bob no less: https://youtu.be/2gj5eO3QQeo


That link points to a video that I didn't have time to watch, but I did a quick search for the lyrics and skimmed some of them here:

    http://www.songlyrics.com/gorefest/tangled-in-gore-lyrics/

I'd never heard of that band or album, but the lyrics are truly disgusting. I don't know what's happened to Jonathan's brain that he would make such a post, but it does concern me.
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Re: WARNING: Crestline Forum Changes Posts

Postby Rick Masters » Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:14 pm

I came to the US Hawks forum because it was the only place on the Internet where I could voice my concerns about hang gliding, what impacts it and its future.
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Re: WARNING: Crestline Forum Changes Posts

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:40 pm

Thanks Rick. That's our goal ... freedom of thought and expression.

Speaking of which, I have to say I am really shocked by what's happened at Crestline today:

Birdbrain replied on Mon, 11/09/2015 - 18:11

DELETED COMMENTS

Comments pertaining to this post have been deleted

Dave Hards
Proud member of both CSS & USHPA


They wiped out entire rational discussions with no trace simply because they reflected poorly on USHPA Director Alan Crouse.

WOW.
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Re: WARNING: Crestline Forum Changes Posts

Postby JoeF » Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:06 pm

We might hold back on "they" yet; maybe it is just Dave Hards' acting alone without oversight.
Perhaps oversight by the CSS officers and members will take some time;
the CSS officers and members will be approving or disapproving of Dave Hards' gross censorship
of opinion. If Dave Hards' censorship is the new face of CSS forum, then that forum will have
emptied itself of values and merit that it carried for so long. It will be very sad if the CSS
supports an empty shell of a forum where just Dave Hard's party line is allowed.

Posted at CSS Forum:
Screen Shot 2015-11-09 at 8.23.41 PM.png
Screen Shot 2015-11-09 at 8.23.41 PM.png (136.89 KiB) Viewed 4438 times
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Re: WARNING: Crestline Forum Changes Posts

Postby JoeF » Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:28 am

As of about 8:00 AM on my son's birthday today, November 10, 2015, Dave Hards chose to block by posting at the CSS Forum.
He is defining the CSS Forum. Though I posted in the old and new CSS Forum and have supported the CSS in very many ways over the years, etc.,
Dave Hards is steering the current CSS Forum into a tight corner that misrepresents hang gliding. His censorship and blocking of BobK and now myself forms a new day for CSS Forum. I still wish them the best even in the tiny corner that Hards is forming, a corner which is much less than what it could be. End of an era. Good luck, Dave Hards, with your whipping stick. My decades of support for the CSS and its forum come to a Dave Hards' click of blocking on-topic matter.
Time for open LZs in San Bernardino County? No CSS membership is needed to land a hang glider in millions of spots in San Bernardino Country. Exploring such spots has been the practice for decades by hang glider pilots in San Bernardino County. It is a huge county.


CSS Forum is sinking. I was in its old forum and in its new forum; I supported CSS all the way in close and far places. Wisdom does not count in the CSS Forum under the new Hards' rule.

If Dave Hards is acting yet alone, then that is one matter.
If he is acting under full approval from the CSS corporation, then that is another matter.

Either way, CSS Forum is being affected in serious ways by the Big Hammer Dave Hards. :thumbdown:

The note following came up upon asking for a new password:

Screen Shot 2015-11-10 at 8.28.32 AM.png
Dave Hards chose without communicating with joefaust to block joefaust's posting access to the CSS Forum.
Screen Shot 2015-11-10 at 8.28.32 AM.png (39.14 KiB) Viewed 4416 times

JD posted to flow with the Hard's move:
Screen Shot 2015-11-10 at 9.13.22 AM.png
How to treat one of the CSS Forum's early and later supporters and contributors
Screen Shot 2015-11-10 at 9.13.22 AM.png (32.17 KiB) Viewed 4406 times

=======================================================
Jonathan several times thanked me for the synergy of his recent return to hang gliding.
And many times he has thanked me for my contributions in the recent era.
Something happened; my analysis of the PDMC, my analysis of the U$hPa, and my standing up to Dave Hards for Hards' disastrous changing people's posts and deleting fertile content at CSS forum, and the narrowing of HG perspectives in Jonathan seems to let him post a series of untenable statements in one paragraph. HG is large; some see a tiny corner of HG; some seeing a tiny corner of HG seem to think that tiny corner is ALL that exists and is ALL that is relevant. This is a way out positively: Open discussions; participate positively in the topics that interest one; never attack persons with untenables. Maybe the CSS Forum will be reviewed by the CSS leaders and reconstruct blocked posts and posters. Just being blocked lets Jonathan have the final word within that forum with his untenables; such pattern will empty that forum of its former values and merits. I hope that a mending and correction will occur. It is a critical time where HG has a chance to distinguish itself from PG; I hope that chance is used. CSS Forum is cementing itself .... there is time to act before the new cement hardens.

Screen Shot 2015-11-10 at 9.35.53 AM.png
Dear Jonathan, the facts: I fly hang gliders at least 7 flights a week every week. You are invited to review my recent five years of HG text for relevancy to HG, even the supportive CSS matters. It is relevant also that the PDMC via USHPA will be putting many into the PG caskets. CSS Forum today has a chance to get out of its blinders mode.
Screen Shot 2015-11-10 at 9.35.53 AM.png (72.36 KiB) Viewed 4404 times


====
Screen Shot 2015-11-10 at 10.23.30 AM.png
I just saw Jonathan's near-same-time post where he gave me a warning. Watch out for the Jonathan pressure tool! Without being able to post now, there is no fair discussion and no in-CSS-Forum way to share perspectives and clear matters. New day: Jonathan is in charge; meet his thresholds or ELSE!
Screen Shot 2015-11-10 at 10.23.30 AM.png (142.5 KiB) Viewed 4400 times
Last edited by JoeF on Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:58 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: WARNING: Crestline Forum Changes Posts

Postby BigBird » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:04 am

BK, Joe

Wow, kicked out of the "BS" forum of the CSS. Why have a BS forum if you're just going to kick people out of it??? Anyway, I haven't been kicked out yet (that I know of) so my login should be good. If you use it PLEASE use your real name at the bottom of your post. Remember don't use that offensive "tone" or I (you) will be kicked out again ;).

H5 Big Bird

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Re: WARNING: Crestline Forum Changes Posts

Postby JoeF » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:39 am

Duely signed:
Posted at CSS Forum (below screen shot of posts)
in hopes for sincere open discussion and clarification.
Will the moderator use the opportunity to correct his ways?
Scroll image as needed.
Screen Shot 2015-11-10 at 10.37.18 AM.png
Screen Shot 2015-11-10 at 10.37.18 AM.png (153.82 KiB) Viewed 4399 times
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