[JoeF]

Each RRG must submit a feasibility study or plan of operation for approval to the chartering state before offering insurance. Under the Federal Act, the plan or study must include coverages, deductibles, coverage limits, rates, and rating classification systems. The NAIC Model Act defines the feasibility study as an "analysis which presents the expected activities and results of a risk retention group."

Framed gliders seem to be so very different from unframed PDMC-PG parachutes that the two activities might not be able to live within the SAME RRG. Just a thought.

[dhmartens]

In 10 years I have never found a member of the general public to understand the difference between a Hang Glider and a Paraglider even after a lengthy explanation.


Most of the members of the hawks were self taught in a time when you could learn to be a buffalo by running alongside the herd. Those days are gone tho that is why I attended a flight school in 2002 and also flew the Windsports simulator in September 1999. Leadership means presenting viable alternatives.
edit: why not reinclude ultralights? were not they once part of our club?

[Bob Kuczewski]

I visited the First Flight web site. What do you think it would take to make the switch?

FirstFlightAssociations.gif (154.49 KiB) Viewed 7104 times

I wonder if they really know the full story behind some of the expensive claims ...
       ... or if they've only heard Mark Forbe's version?

[Rick Masters]

Once they started paying claims for paragliders drifting into power lines - and midairs! - it was over.
I've been warning about this for years. By not addressing the paragliding problem, USHPA has "killed off" USHPA hang gliding.
A big opportunity awaits the US Hawks unless they are dumb enough to get involved in the all-things-for-all-people USHPA RRG.
There are no observed cases of passengers boarding a sinking ship, so there may be hope.

I would make the following point.
Before paragliding, U.S. hang gliding had a number of members and a certain accident ratio that was workable for insurers for 35 years.
Then with the inclusion of paragliding, membership more than doubled but the accident ratio increased disproportionately because
1) injuries are more severe and numerous with paragliding
2) flying sites are more crowded, which leads to more accidents
3) paragliders are less controllable, which leads to more accidents
4) in general, people who fly paragliders are not as focused on piloting as hang glider pilots, which leads to more accidents
5) paragliders are not robust aircraft - they collapse, which leads to more accidents
6) paragliders, unlike all other soaring aircraft, have a Dead Man's Curve, which leads to more accidents.

In addition, the focus on training has shifted to paragliding, resulting in an increased fatality rate in hang gliding.
While tandem joyriding should not have been tolerated by USHPA, under the guise of instruction it brought increased claims.

Taking on the extra liability presented by paragliding turned out to be a stupid and regrettable decision for the USHGA.
This is where it ends up. No 3PL insurance. You brought it upon yourselves.
The RRG is no different. It is doomed to fail.
Hang glider pilots need to separate themselves from paragliding to have any chance, if any chance remains.
We are not parachutists. We fly the simplest sailplanes.
Going to the people who caused the problem is unlikely to solve it.

[Rick Masters]

Paragliding injuries are different.
It is crazy for hang glider pilots to continue to take on this additional liability.
There is no benefit.
You are going to lose your sport.

Spinal cord injuries among paragliders in Norway
http://www.nature.com/sc/journal/v46/n6/full/3102158a.html
Our study confirms that paragliders are at risk for fractures in thoracolumbar region of the spine with subsequent SCI, as previous studies have indicated. Landing at high speed on straight feet or crashing on the buttocks puts the thoracolumbal junction of the spine at risk for fractures caused by high energy. Similar injuries have been reported among skydivers and among snowboarders indicating that this type of extreme sport increases the risk of spine injuries. Among skydivers and snowboarders, approximately one-third of the SCIs occur in the cervical or upper thoracic level. In contrast to these and to epidemiological data on SCI in Norway, paragliding injuries are more homogeneous, as serious neck and head trauma is rare, indicating that the spinal cord and spine are at high risk due to vertical high-energy force evoked toward the spine due to the paraglider's fixed body position.

...In Norway, back protection was introduced as compulsory equipment from 2003. The number of traumas did however not decrease. Pilots' personality may also influence their perceptions. A previous study has demonstrated that paragliders have a more sensation-seeking personality than people in the general population. Sensation-seekers usually underestimate or accept risks to enjoy some types of sensations and experiences. This kind of personality has a high risk of accidents.

...All our patients reported disabling health problems at follow-up, and no one experienced complete functional recovery without any health problems. The individual persistent complaints varied from urinary and sexual disturbances to neuropathic pain and loss of gait function similar to the results from other studies. The most common health problem was urological dysfunction, and five patients needed intermittent bladder catheterization. Intermittent catheterization influences social functioning and may contribute to physical disability. In five cases disturbed sexual functioning was reported. Previous studies have indicated that a high proportion of patients with traumatic SCI experience both sexual and bladder disturbances as the main health problems requiring continuous medical follow-up. Chronic pain was reported as a major health problem by five patients. Chronic pain influences the quality of life, and is reported as the main disabling problem among a high proportion of patients with SCI also from the other causes. The pain may prevent community reintegration and return to the daily activities the patients enjoyed before the injury. Urological and sexual dysfunction and chronic pain are not visually obvious to the families, friends and employers, but may nevertheless be the most disabling symptoms to the patients.

Conclusions
Paragliding landing accidents imply a high risk of fractures in the thoracolumbal junction with subsequent SCI because of high-energy force impacting the spine in the accident. Although all patients gained function during the primary rehabilitation, they all experienced persisting disabling symptoms. Urinary and sexual disturbances, chronic pain and loss of gait function were the most prevalent health problems.

[Bill Cummings]

New Mexico
From : http://asci.uvm.edu/equine/law/recreate/nm_rec.htm
New Mexico Recreational Use Statute

NEW MEXICO STATUTES
CHAPTER 17. GAME AND FISH
ARTICLE 4. PROPAGATION OF FISH AND GAME



17-4-7. Liability of landowner permitting persons to hunt, fish or use lands for recreation; duty of care; exceptions

A. Any owner, lessee or person in control of lands who, without charge or other consideration, other than a consideration paid to said landowner by the state, the federal government or any other governmental agency, grants permission to any person or group to use his lands for the purpose of hunting, fishing, trapping, camping, hiking, sightseeing or any other recreational use does not thereby:

(1) extend any assurance that the premises are safe for each purpose; or

(2) assume any duty of care to keep such lands safe for entry or use; or

(3) assume responsibility or liability for any injury or damage to, or caused by, such person or group;

(4) assume any greater responsibility, duty of care or liability to such person or group, than if such permission had not been granted and such person or group were trespassers.

B. This section shall not limit the liability of any landowner, lessee or person in control of lands which may otherwise exist by law for injuries to any person granted permission to hunt, fish, trap, camp, hike, sightsee or use the land for recreation in exchange for a consideration, other than a consideration paid to said landowner by the state, the federal government or any other governmental agency.

Below jump to actual state statute or code:
From: http://theraf.org/sites/default/files/r ... _10555.pdf

Below actual wording of statute or code for New Mexico (USA)
From: http://theraf.org/sites/default/files/r ... _96249.pdf

Below is a link for New Mexico State Land Recreation Permit.
From: http://www.nmstatelands.org/commercial-forms-and-permits.aspx

[Bill Cummings]

My vehicle insurance lady called me today.
She told me uninsured motorist, medical, and a few other categories were going to go up in premium costs to customers all over New Mexico.
She gave me a good list of options to pick from. I could even drop some electives and go only with the legally required minimums.
It occurs to me that the RRG being pushed by the USHPA will set my minimum premium at one and a half times more than it was and that I have no options to drop elective coverage plans.
One option I do have is to cough up additional money in the form of a donation/pledge to relieve any guilt feelings for anyone referring to me as a greedy, selfish, tightwad on the USHPA Forum. (Oh I forgot.- USHPA hasn't dared put one up yet.)
What this RRG amounts to is that I have to become a purchaser without a vote, any say, and with a broken complaint system in place.
The broken complaint system happens to be, Regional Directors (RD's) that can vote me out of USHPA membership when I haven't broken one safety flying rule. (Which happened during 2015 to another pilot.)
Depending on how I care to spend my money I might prefer to become part of a lower risk insured group and not be involved with higher race car driving premiums.
Or collapsible speed wing parachutes premiums.
Or driving the team kids to volley ball games.
Or covering tandem school flying instructions.
(--Just to name a few -- Don't get me started.)

[Bill Cummings]

MG Forbes: (From the OZ Report posting, "Insurance question.")

"The new deductible is going to be $2500 for recreational pilots, $5000 for instructional accidents. The existing $1000 deductible has been in place for many years and has not been adjusted for inflation over that time. The intent of our insurance is not to spare pilots *all* of the financial pain of an accident, but to protect them from catastrophic loss of their savings, homes and other assets. Lower deductibles significantly raise the overall cost of claims, but most pilots should be able to manage $2500, if not painlessly."

_____________________________
My deductible will be going from $1,000.00 and from yearly dues of $99.00 -- TO -- $2,500.00 with $150.00 dues.
For schools it will be $5,000.00 deductible.
Why?
Is the answer:
a) they can afford it?
b) they pose a greater risk?
c) both a & b?
d) something else?
_____________________________
Next question? Is any part of my Hang Gliding dues going to help mitigate premium costs to a school that is giving tandem joy rides?

[Rick Masters]

My deductible will be going from $1,000.00 and from yearly dues of $99.00 -- TO -- $2,500.00 with $150.00 dues.

In all fairness to USHPA, a $1000 deductible in 1982 dollars is equivalent to almost exactly $2500 today. It's not even a point for discussion because nothing has changed in real terms. I think I paid $35 to USHGA in 1982. Today, I'd be paying over $85, which is where it was before the insurance problem. So there could be no argument there, either. Money is simply worth less. Doubling the dues to fund an RRG is unfortunate but not necessarily unfair.

If you see the RRG as the only way out, you have to roll with the punches and cough it up. But some pilots won't see the RRG as a solution and others, like myself, may see it as a Pandora's Box.

Some pilots may not require insurance for the sites they fly. Should the USHPA force them to buy insurance? No. Does the USHPA force them to buy insurance? Yes. Therein lies the rub. USHPA risks losing those pilots and the other pilots will end up paying even more.

[SamKellner]

Greg Chastain
NTHPA Yahoo Group

Today at 11:27 AM
Greg Chastain:

I said it was okay originally, plus gone back to this site yesterday again and said it was okay….but I still don’t see my name on the honor roll list. Is there a different list? Since I got my money in and was able to get it matched from the Jackson Hole club, does my donation end up being listed under their donation? I really don’t know how USHPA would know that. I just provided my receipt to the Jackson Hole club.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/NTH ... sages/5091