[Bob Kuczewski]

There are many factors that contributed to the founding of the US Hawks. USHPA, of course, plays a prominent role. But so does Jack Axaopoulos - who operates hanggliding.org.

I captured the images below in October of 2010 shortly after Jack banned me from hanggliding.org. I'm just now getting around to posting them - it wasn't high on my list of priorities for the US Hawks!!

In late July of 2010, Jack Axaopoulos banned Scott Wise ("Wingspan34") from hanggliding.org. On July 28th, 2010, I started a poll on hanggliding.org asking fellow pilots whether they thought Scott should have been banned. My post was very respectful of Jack, and I had hoped that enough people would step forward to help give him some much needed guidance. Here's my first post which started that topic (note that this snapshot was taken in October of 2010, and I believe the poll results were more in Scott's favor back in July of 2010 when these posts were originally made):

Should_Scott_be_Banned.png (105.13 KiB) Viewed 10185 times

Jack Axaopoulos was boasting about all the support he had gotten for the ban (which the poll at that time seemed to contradict). The discussion continued, and Ryan Voight made a comment that he was essentially surrendering and Jack could do whatever he wanted.

I replied with what might be my shortest - and most concise - post of all time:

    "Yup. Just like the SGAA forum."

I was, of course, referring to the HGAA which I had co-founded with a bunch of other pilots. The HGAA was taken over by Jack (using the screen name "SG") just prior to my post, and so my "SGAA" comment was right on target. Jack banned me immediately. Here's the record of that ban captured a few months later in October of 2010:

The moral of the story is twofold:

   1. Don't criticize Jack Axaopoulos on hanggliding.org.
   2. You won't get the whole truth on hanglgiding.org.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Wow, I haven't seen this topic in quite a few years. I was discussing the abusive banning practices on hanggliding.org and I searched for the acronym "SGAA" and this topic came up.

When I wrote the previous post, most people on the U.S. Hawks were familiar with the facts. But now it's been a while and it might use a little refreshing.

I had forgotten that I was banned from hanggliding.org when I was trying to gather support to oppose the banning of Scott Wise. My original post above was very respectful, and I was simply starting a poll to see what people thought of Jack's banning of Scott. Ryan Voight had known Scott for a long time, and I believe Ryan was disappointed in the ban. But Ryan did what most people do and just gave up (note the "surrender" emoji in Ryan's post). I simply added the comment:

      "Yup. Just like the SGAA forum."

Those 6 words were so painfully true, that Jack ("SG") could not control himself. Jack Axaopoulos likes to say that everyone should "treat the moderator like any other member", but that's always been a lie. The proof is right there. Try to search for "SGAA" on hanggliding.org and see what you find. Yup, it's been erased. Jack rewrites history to his liking ... especially if you've made a particularly good point. We should also never forget what Jack Axaopoulos did to Al Hernandez when Jack banned Al. Here's that evidence once again:

Jack_Slanders_Al.png (56.18 KiB) Viewed 3841 times

Jack Axaopoulos banned Al and then changed Al's post to make it appear that Al was a pedophile. That's your fate if you ever cross Jack Axaopoulos. That's why Bill just quietly left hanggliding.org without saying a word. Bill recognized the vindictive and dangerous personality of Jack Axaopoulos as evidenced in this post.

[Bob Kuczewski]

By the way, there's a lot that can be learned from looking back at those old posts from hanggliding.org.

Banning_of_Bob.png (689.97 KiB) Viewed 3838 times

For example, you can see that Ryan, Jack and myself all had the maximum "Three Thumbs Up" approval rating at the time of those posts (see the three little "thumbs up" icons under our names in our posts). You can also see that the only post with a negative rating was Jack's post (see the little red "thumbs down" icon in the bottom right of Jack's last post where he banned me).

You can also see how long various people had been members and how much they had posted:

- Jack Axaopoulos joined on 17 July 2006 and had made 9,923 posts at the time of my ban on July 30, 2010.
- Ryan joined on 9 August 2007 and had made 3,683 posts by July 30, 2010.
- I had joined on 24 September 2007 and had made 1,895 posts by the time of my ban in July 2010.

Sometime after banning me, Jack Axaopoulos deleted all 1,895 of my posts - ALL OF THEM. That's what Jack Axaopoulos holds over people like Red and now Frank. With each post they give Jack more leverage over their behavior. They give Jack more power over what they can say or do ... not only on hanggliding.org ... but everywhere else as evidenced by the banning of Joe Faust when Joe wouldn't change Joe's own web site to Jack's liking.

Getting back to the dates, it's pretty common that the date of a PHPBB forum is the same as the "join" date of its founding member. So hanggliding.org would have been started on July 17th, 2006. That was just over 4 years before the founding of the U.S. Hawks in August of 2010. We can similarly get the age of the Oz Forum by checking the "Joined" date of Davis Straub:

Davis_Post_Block.png (76.22 KiB) Viewed 3838 times

So Davis is likely to have started his forum on February 27th, 2003. That gives the comparative ages of the three forums as:

ozreport.com (18.9 years)	=========================================================
hanggliding.org (15.5 years)	=============================================
ushawks.org (11.4 years)	=================================

The U.S. Hawks is still the youngest, but not by any orders of magnitude any more. The difference in ages is getting to be insignificant, and the U.S. Hawks has established itself as the only major hang gliding forum where freedom of speech is truly respected. Thanks to all of our Board Members who have guided us for all these years.

FYI, this is the Python code used to calculate the approximate ages of the three forums:

# Print the approximate ages of the three major hang gliding forums

import time

start_oz    = [2003,2,27,12,0,0,0,0,0]
start_hgorg = [2006,7,17,12,0,0,0,0,0]
start_hawks = [2010,8,13,12,0,0,0,0,0]

toz = time.mktime(start_oz)
thg = time.mktime(start_hgorg)
thawks = time.mktime(start_hawks)
tnow = time.mktime(time.localtime())

lenoz = tnow - toz
lenhg = tnow - thg
lenhawks = tnow - thawks

yrs_oz = lenoz / ( 60 * 60 * 24 * 365 )
yrs_hgorg = lenhg / ( 60 * 60 * 24 * 365 )
yrs_hawks = lenhawks / ( 60 * 60 * 24 * 365 )

print ( "ozreport.com    forum is " + str(yrs_oz) + " years old" )
print ( "hanggliding.org forum is " + str(yrs_hgorg) + " years old" )
print ( "ushawks.org     forum is " + str(yrs_hawks) + " years old" )

print ( int(round(yrs_oz)) * 3 * "=" )
print ( int(round(yrs_hgorg)) * 3 * "=" )
print ( int(round(yrs_hawks)) * 3 * "=" )

[Bob Kuczewski]

It's been a couple more years, and I thought it might be a good time to update the graphs showing the ages of these forums:

ozreport.com (21.3 years)	===============================================================
hanggliding.org (17.9 years)	======================================================
ushawks.org (13.9 years)	==========================================

( I'm glad I posted that Python code above. It was an easy copy and paste to update the graphs!!    )

And while I'm updating the topic, I might as well add a link to the recently reconstructed early history of the HGAA which ultimately led to several bannings from hanggliding.org (including mine). Here's that early (and optimistic) history:

      https://ushawks.org/HGAA/Call_for_Leaders_and_Founders/

The short (ten step) version is:

1. Bob posted to start a new hang gliding association (see link above).
2. Lots of people signed up to help get it started and we named it the HGAA.
3. Scott Wise volunteered and agreed to be the initial Chairman of the HGAA.
4. Jack Axaopoulos ("sg") volunteered to create a web site for the HGAA, and he controlled it.
5. When Jack realized that he couldn't control the HGAA with Scott as Chairman, Jack banned Scott.
6. When Bob Kuczewski (me) defended Scott, Jack banned me and deleted all my posts.
7. Jack went on to ban Joe Faust and many others from hangglidng.org.
8. Jack destroyed the torreyhawksforum.org web site he'd "donated" to the Torrey Hawks.
9. Bob and Scott went on to found the U.S. Hawks Hang Gliding Association in 2010.
10. The HGAA soon dried up and disappeared (HGAA.org is now the Hazel Grove Agricultural Association).

[dhmartens]

My employment contract with the United States dept. of Teasury allows me to designate terrorists and I have designated Jack Axaopoulos as a terrorist organization.
Ozreport has allowed 100% of my posts so now his government is now aquiring US nuclear powered submarines.
Chubb Insurance agreed to sell hang glider insurance to compete with UShpa.
I have legally deputized BokK so he can now display this badge when he address San Diego City Councile.

Jack Axaopoulos has done so much to support this sport and many do not realize his contribution.