[Bob Kuczewski]

Very nicely executed Jim ... both the bar and the flight!!



That is a beautiful flying site. Is it often soarable, and do you welcome (or at least tolerate) visitors?

[Rick Masters]

[reluctantsparrow]

Flown with it twice since last posting.....its...uh...how do I put this gently? its BORING!...yes, flying with this bar is so damned easy its actually boring to fly....
I am hiring an engineer who speciaizes in safety and fall restraint device testing and developement to do in depth analysis of the safety of the device....to mathematically prove it can not cause any failure of dowtubes if the forward portion is sufficiently stiff and not allowed to flex....
I am also working with a videographer to mount SIx go-pros on my glider and I am going to fly across a portion of the cascades from a new launch only three pilots (myself one of them) have ever flown from.....This is to attract attention to the the fact the invention can handle big air no problem....it will be professionally produced and worked into a promo for a kickstarter campaign to generate interest, but not in the hang gliding community I am finding out....
the guys that are hovering around my invention at Dog and asking questions are not the hang pilots....it is the Para pilots that want to cross over to hang gliding that are asking the questions.....they dont like the fact their aircraft can fall out of the sky.....They WANT to hang glide....they just dont want to do it in the prone position.....so the invention is going to alter the para to hang pilot ratio if it picks up steam....Which I intend to do my best to promote.
But for us hangies....it is BORING!....I flew behind another pilot on purpose to see how in handles wake turbulance....something i usually avoid flying prone....and it is like rolling over a couple mole hills in a field....not sure why it handles turbulance better, but it seems to...
I was so bored at about a half hour into flying (the air was very smooth i admit) that I put both my hands behind my head, leaned back, and flew with my feet on the basetube....I coulda taken a nap, I can easily drink a soda flying this way or eat a sandwich....no problem....it is excessivly easy.
Take off feels exactly the same as Prone....so does landing....had a perfect stand up landing...no problem....gives you more flare authority than rocking up in a prone harness....so once I have had my fun I am probably going back to flying prone....
we have a greater sensitivity to what the glider is doing in the prone position....even though the bar is firmly connected to the downtubes I could not ....feel...the glider as perfectly as we do in prone....it feels more like driving a car around in the sky.....yep...that is exactely what it feels like...the difference between driving a car and riding a motorcycle. riding a motorcycle is way more fun and feels more like you are one with your device.
Flying suprone with this device feels like you are just driving to the dentist office or something....its too easy.
But I will say this....after an hour in the air you land and realize nothing is sore....not your neck, not your shoulders....nothing....does not even feel like you just got an hour of airtime....so...yes, it will catch on, and yes, it will be safer, but no, it is not going to do away with prone....viva la superman!
But as for long distance flight? oh hell yes....I was wrapped up in thermals right up next to the hill....perfect control....no problem wrapping it up steep....roll control is not compromised in any way.....so a long, boring, cross country flight where a person does not get sore three hours into the trip?......absolutely....and you can stuff the bar and go so fast you have to hold really still or PIO will come into play....I bet I was flying faster than any supine or suprone pilot has ever flown on a rag wing....I am guessing 45 plus....but I am going to do all upcoming video with a Go-pro verb that has built in GPS and will give a constant read out of speeds attained...
I could sit in this thing all day and not get sore....you can stretch in the air, shift your seat around, fly with one hand.....eat pizza.......the only problem I have found so far is boredom.....feet first is a really boring way to fly

[ARP]

RS:- "even though the bar is firmly connected to the downtubes I could not ....feel...the glider as perfectly as we do in prone....it feels more like driving a car around in the sky...."

With your supine bar at half the height of the downtubes you are only feeling half the feedback movement normally felt at the base tube. You will also only have half the leverage although it might be easier to apply in supine position.

[reluctantsparrow]

RS:- "even though the bar is firmly connected to the downtubes I could not ....feel...the glider as perfectly as we do in prone....it feels more like driving a car around in the sky...."

With your supine bar at half the height of the downtubes you are only feeling half the feedback movement normally felt at the base tube. You will also only have half the leverage although it might be easier to apply in supine position.

That explains feeling less feedback....Roll control, however is not diminished in any way...It feels like i actually have MORE roll Control .....rapid 45 to 45 roll reversals feel easier than prone....I wouldnt say effortless....I would say about half the effort required when in the prone position....maybe it is because i am using a totally different muscle group to initiate roll than we Use when flying prone

[reluctantsparrow]

[quote="Bob Kuczewski"

That is a beautiful flying site. Is it often soarable, and do you welcome (or at least tolerate) visitors?[/quote]

The site in the video is Dog Mtn. Bob....soarable almost every day spring/winter/fall but the whole USHPA insurance thing is required at this time. I think the Washington State Recreational use laws open up a possibiity in the future this site could be flown without insurance or ushpa membership, but not yet....
Washington State law says there must be:
1.nothing latin (hidden)
2.nothing artificial (manmade)
3. nothing known to be dangerous
and no money can be charged for use or the landowner becomes liable....
right now Dog Mtn. has
1. a hidden rotor behind some trees to the south of launch when the winds are crossing from the south
2. an artificial (manmade) ramp
3. the Rotor behind those trees is known to be dangerous...

I am thinking....
1.negotiate to take down all those trees on the south side....(remove both the hidden and the known to be dangerous)
2. remove the manmade artificial ramp and return the launch area to a natural grade
3. the timber companies dont charge for usage and use it as a tax exemption and could not be sued under land use laws

I am not a law expert....but.....I see a possibility existing sites could be massaged into conformance with state land use laws that make the need for insurance and waivers a mute point...

[Frank Colver]

It still costs a land owner a lot to fight lawsuits. Escape Country (see my photos elsewhere in this forum) closed because he got so many lawsuits. The land owner won all of them even though he charged admission to the property, but the cost of defending himself finally closed the facility. For some years after, untill residential development, Wills Wing was allowed to use it as their glider test site.

As to the suprone position - I like the idea. I had always flown seated even long after everyone else went to prone because I love the seated flying. The disadvantage, as has been stated, is that the legs are under the bar. However, in some typically nasty landings, a few times in my years of HG, I never was injured by that fact. I always managed to get my legs back underneath me before the splat. And, I never even came close to hitting my head on the keel tube.

Here for nostalgia's sake (1970's) is me in my favorite flying position where I can enjoy the look around and not get a stiff neck either. Hmmm....wish I was still that thin.

Frank Colver

1st time flying SST @ Norco.jpg (175.72 KiB) Viewed 4828 times

[Rick Masters]

...feet first is a really boring way to fly

I agree. Totally booor-ing.

[reluctantsparrow]

It still costs a land owner a lot to fight lawsuits. Escape Country (see my photos elsewhere in this forum) closed because he got so many lawsuits. The land owner won all of them even though he charged admission to the property, but the cost of defending himself finally closed the facility. For some years after, untill residential development, Wills Wing was allowed to use it as their glider test site.

As to the suprone position - I like the idea. I had always flown seated even long after everyone else went to prone because I love the seated flying. The disadvantage, as has been stated, is that the legs are under the bar. However, in some typically nasty landings, a few times in my years of HG, I never was injured by that fact. I always managed to get my legs back underneath me before the splat. And, I never even came close to hitting my head on the keel tube.

Here for nostalgia's sake (1970's) is me in my favorite flying position where I can enjoy the look around and not get a stiff neck either. Hmmm....wish I was still that thin.

Frank Colver

1st time flying SST @ Norco.jpg

Good points Frank but basically quoted you to say I LOVED my SSTs!!!! I had two of them...Talk about a forgiving ship...And yes....wheel on the Base tube...pilot above the base tube....a Bar in front of the pilot to pull in from....two main Suspension straps that will hit the suprone bar first in the event of a bad landing and soak up the initial Gs.....then the pilots body has to crash THROUGH a bar attached to both downtubes and take out all that aluminum before swinging forward....THEN the pilot legs are going to absorb what Gs are left over to absorb....NOT the pilots head....

I am trying to imagine....with all that crash protection, if a pilot can fly into a brick wall and walk away....hmmm....not sure I am ready to try that....but ya got to admit...you add all these factors together and the splat protection available is substantial.....PLUS....most paraglider harness have a bubble butt....an airbag under the seat......
I have also designed some kick a** shock absorbing wheels for my base tube I have not posted pics of yet....On one suprone test flight flying with these special wheels I actually picked my feet UP and DOVE my glider into the ground...no flare...I kept my eyes on the wheels...I wanted to see if they worked...and they did...they soaked up about four inches of impact like a sponge...
NOw, since I had picked my legs UP I fully expected to land hard on my butt....but....I didnt...I really did not know I had an airbag down there.....and that thing worked AWESOME! If felt like I sat down on a water bed at first....then gradually let me down to the ground like a feather...so yeah...
I intentionally crashed this set up into the ground and it was a total non-event...between the shock absorbing wheel set up, the suprone bar, and the airbag....the perfect safe splat scenario....

[reluctantsparrow]

I am learning something about having eyes to look at something but not being able to see what you are looking at.
When I crashed on purpose..... totally pancaked into the ground...HARD! Then I started laughing hysterically..because it was a total non-event..not one part of my body had touched the ground....My feet were on the base tube....the shocks absorbed most of that impact...and then the bubble under my butt absorbed the rest...so.....
my body never touched the ground....not once.
So there were pilots watching this landing and they were aghast....One of them said...THAT WAS UGLY!!! Are you Okay??
it took a lot of talking and explaining for them to realize what they had just witnessed was not ugly but in fact beautiful!!! A full speed, intentional pancake into the ground and the impact on my body was the same as if I had sat down on a feather bed?????....???? that is a beautiful thing....
working hard on the promo video, setting up connections to have the bar professionally bent and powdercoated, also working with CAD designers to submit clamp specifications to be CNC or injection molded....
But I am still having fun....I will stop doing all this when it stops being fun....thats my rule