[brianscharp]

...Flybar works great...

Hoping you'll still share video of it in use.

[reluctantsparrow]

...Flybar works great...

Hoping you'll still share video of it in use.

You Bet Brian.....just put together this short clip or the Utah trip....a lot more coming.
And hey there Rick.....It wasn't boring at all...lots of snakes to make friends with....

[brianscharp]

The Flybar looks cool to me.

[reluctantsparrow]

Thanks Brian, I wasnt going for cool, I was just going for a practical shape, but yeah, it does kinda look like a sky harley doesnt it? Maybe I'll call it the sky hog???
Anyway, so far, in spite of a major manufacture telling me my solution has a lot of problems...I have not found the problems....take off is easy, landing is easy, control is easy...and I dont have sore shoulders or a sore neck afterwards.......it is a easier than prone in my opinion but has limitations.....the limitations are....when I pull in I am doing 40 on my super sport instead of the 50 I get in the prone position....so....no aerobatics really.
I am going to go out on a limb however and say it is an easier way to fly in what I call..."fun Air"...meaning...air that is fun to fly in, which is the only air I am interested in flying these days anyway....
In rough, turbulant air where maximum control is required Prone is still a better way to go, but I am getting WAY more control over my glider using this flybar than any other suprone pilot ever has.
I tried supine with handles two years ago as well....and this bar is a vast improvement....huge....I will do a video soon to relate my experiences in each position, the pluses and minuses, and why flying with such a bar in the feet forward position makes a lot of sense both comfort wise and safety wise...
There was actually a LOT of interest in the bar at Point of the Mountain....Lots of both hang and para pilots checking it out, asking questions, etc.
I think its going to go....start of small, and gain momentum among pilots who just want to fly mostly fun air.
I have already had it out is some pretty rough air and have not had any problems, so maybe it will become popular among big air pilots but I doubt it. It will be mostly for the fun flyers like myself.

[Rick Masters]

In rough, turbulant air where maximum control is required Prone is still a better way to go

As in maximum pitch authority.
Stuff the bar.
Lock your arms.
Bend your knees.
Hang on and pray.    

Some people never need to do that.
Lucky them.

But when you need to do it, you really, really need to do it.

[reluctantsparrow]

In rough, turbulant air where maximum control is required Prone is still a better way to go

As in maximum pitch authority.
Stuff the bar.
Lock your arms.
Bend your knees.
Hang on and pray.    

Some people never need to do that.
Lucky them.

But when you need to do it, you really, really need to do it.

Well said....and I totally agree....but yeah, if I am flying "big air" I would still want to be prone for control purposes (mostly the higher speed range Rick alludes to)
HOWEVER....interesting thing.....public perception.....
I showed the video to a gal at a laundrymat where Steve and I had stopped to do laundry on the way back to Washington and she thought the "sliders" were "entertaining" but when she saw the "flybar" footage she totally lit up and said...."OH! I want to do that!"....I could do THAT!"......interesting eh? a total non-flyer.....she perceived the seated position as something she could do and desired to do while watching the "prone" footage she had no interest in hang gliding....hmmmm
Public perception.....most the public "perceives" that paragliding is safer because it "looks" safer.....its a parachute after all...how dangerous could it be?.....
The "flybar" looked both safer and more fun to this gal at the laundrymat....and in "fun air" the flybar has to be safer in my opinion.....it has to be safer crashing feet first that head first...It also is much more comfortable flying head up.....
Of course she had no knowledge of big air, turbulence and the need for speed that arises in such conditions....but most pilots don't fly the big air anyway...they fly the fun air....the "sport pilot" class air...and this bar is totally adequate for such air...40 mph pulled in is a respectable speed for flying such air safely.
If the "image" in the publics mind is a pilot with a s*** eating grin all leaned back flying a "sky Harley"....(with some really big wheels)...flying smooth air.....and that position is also a much more survivable position to survive an impact......????

[Rick Masters]

The "flybar" looked both safer and more fun to this gal...

You raise an interesting point. Many of us during the first 6 or 7 years of hang gliding actually took our first flights on a simple training Rogallo with a swing seat.
These were the photos the public saw, for the most part, like pilots soaring Waimanalo on swing seats.
I first learned to fly on a Seagull III with a Sears playground plastic swing seat.
You're right. It was less likely to end up with your head on the ground if you landed hard into the wind.
It did provide the perception of a safer view of hang gliding.
When prone gradually became popular, virtually all of us regarded the transition to head-first with trepidation.
There were a lot of new stories about people losing control and breaking their necks.
Luckily, I learned at Guadalupe Dunes near Santa Maria, California, where even hard crashes were pretty soft.
I remember my first attempts at prone being kind of freaky, but soon the improved pitch control won me over.
Because of the increased danger at landing, flying prone made me concentrate on fine control and forced me to master (as well as possible) flying after rotation.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Very cool video Rick!!

The plastic wings sure looked more doable to the average observer. Maybe the lure of being able to build a wing on par with others at the time was part of the early excitement?

Sunny Jim, I wish I could have visited Point of the Mountain with you. Your flybar looks fun, and you've got a good point about prone appearing less natural to beginners. That's a new idea that I had never heard anyone mention. Good thinking!!!

By the way, if you're still in Utah, give me a call. There are some good folks out there that I'd like to introduce you to.

[reluctantsparrow]

Rick,
I ran across a medical journal article last year I cant find right now but I will keep looking....
I believe the article was written in 1975 and was peer reviewed....it documented, from a medical perspective,the rapid rise in serious hang gliding injuries to the upper extremities as the sport of hang gliding shifted from flying seated to flying prone.....
I found it very interesting that the medical profession made this observation and most of us did not...I will keep looking for the journal that contains that medical report....
My first prone experience felt freaky too.....very scary. Seated was easier...no rotation required...
Now that I am flying feet first again....OMG....insanely easy...not sore at all after flying....and with the flybar I have gained an acceptable level of both control and speed....not as much as prone of course, but acceptable.

[Rick Masters]

I've never actually liked flying prone. I've flown prone only because it provides the best control authority.
Flying prone can be hard on your neck, and your immediate upward perspective, while possible, requires contortions and generates fatigue.
A lot of accidents have occurred over the years due to this.
I remember Larry Tudor had a neck like a bull.
Me, I used an elastic strap running from my carabiner to a bolt in the top of my helmet to balance my head in line with my back.
That worked well, even after 10 hours of cross country, but it did nothing for the clearance or head-first vulnerability problems.

I'm not certain that the reduced pitch authority with suprone/supine is insurmountable.
Nobody tries dramatic new things anymore, probably due to liability reasons. That sucks.
With modern materials, it should be easy, although not necessarily affordable, to design a structurally acceptable control bar with the cross piece mounted higher than a conventional control bar - at the position of your "flybar."
It would look like an "A" with a pair of faired wheels at the bottom of the legs, which would have conventional flying wire attachments.
The crossbar/flybar would not be straight across between the downtubes but bulged significantly forward, even more than your "flybar."
It should allow the same pitch authority as a prone pilot, although roll would be inhibited somewhat, or perhaps it could be enhanced by leg/hip twisting to be equivalent to prone. Maybe better!
I should mention that when flying prone, with arms locked at full pitch forward, there is also limited roll control - and at most cases it is not required because at high speed minimal roll provides everything the pilot wants.
This cross piece would also serve as a stop for the pilot in a crash, making it difficult for his head to contact with anything prior to structural failure.
It will be absolutely necessary to perform rigorous stress analysis and empirical testing on the prototype design.
The pilot should be able to run and flare on uneven terrain and land on level terrain at higher speed in a suprone position without contacting the ground with his buttocks.

Another important addition would be a "French Connection" type of pitch enhancement device.
These are fantastic but I don't see many in use.

[ BTW - I'm watching the Formula 1 Grand Prix in Mexico. One of the cars just broke 231 mph, a first in Formula 1. Announcers are saying it's due to the 7000 foot altitude. ]