[Rick Masters]

Do I have to belong to a secret club to know this?

[wingspan33]

You mean you didn't know?



BTW - All the hang glider pilots in the US are right here on the US Hawks. Those other wannabes are actually hang glider "pussies". They're willing to kiss up to an "association" that has sold them out. I don't count them as HG pilots.

Well, . . . except maybe for those who would be here if it weren't for the U$hPa's negative propaganda.

[Rick Masters]

You mean you didn't know?

No. I don't.
I can't find it on the USHPA website.
What gives?

All the hang glider pilots in the US are right here on the US Hawks.

I understand your sentiment but the other hang glider pilots who aren't here had better get their butts over here and be counted.
For hang gliding, the USHPA is finished.
What could make it more clear than Mike Meier's graph?



The USHPA killed off hang gliding in favor of paragliding.
So the USHPA is still supposed to be the representative organization for hang gliding???
Who says? Are you people asleep?
You gotta be kidding me.
Those who love hang gliding had better get their butts over here.
It costs nothing.
They can still sit on the fence and keep their USHPA membership.
Ratings are permanent at the Hawks.
But don't they realize they're being played?
How can they deny it at this point?
Their excuses are meaningless.
BobK wants a new organization.
But if they don't want BobK in the executive, they can vote him out.
Its not an issue.

I'm not even on the BOD.
I'm just telling you as a hang glider pilot that
THE US HAWKS IS A GIFT.

THE US HAWKS IS A GIFT TO HANG GLIDING!
A national association of hang glider pilots!
All this talk about hang gliding diminishing to nothing is a farce!
Hang gliding is fantastic!
Every hang glider pilot knows that.
Nothing compares to it.
It has always been and will always be far and away much better than any form of parachuting.
It will never vanish.
Everything that has happened is simply a result of the USHGA disaster of embracing paragliding.
We can reverse that easily.
All we need to do is rebuild a national hang gliding association like we had before.
Hang glider pilots need to abandon the USHPA and get real here.
Repost this.
http://ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2798&p=21466&sid=8d2bbeeee36ce69f2a968537d081b1c1&sid=8d2bbeeee36ce69f2a968537d081b1c1#p21466

[Bob Kuczewski]

THE US HAWKS IS A GIFT.

Thanks very much for saying that Rick.

Really, everyone on this forum is a gift that we give to each other.

I can't tell you how much I have appreciated everyone who's been part of this.

I could not be more sincere in my thanks to each of you.   

[DaveSchy]

Some one who was at the drunken brawl, err "Bored" meeting posted that the number is "around 2,000". When I tried to find it to send along to you all, it was GONE!!
Forbesian magic? Methinks, so!
Don't tell any one, its a secret.
Looking at total membership divided by the ridiculous dues yields less than 9,000 total membership.

[Frank Colver]

We need to move forward with the US Hawks by incorporating and becoming a "real" organization. Bob and I have talked about this often but neither of us know how to take that step (or maybe we're just lazy).

DO WE HAVE A PERSON IN THIS ORG WHO HAS THE EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE TO TAKE ON THIS TASK, RUN WITH IT, AND DO ALL THE NECESSARY STEPS TO INCORPORATE INTO WHATEVER CATEGORY WE SHOULD BE AS A NON-PROFIT ORG?

We need to limit liability so we can have a real BOD and start moving toward becoming an active national organization dedicated to recreational hang gliding (using a hang glider when flying).

Hey guys and gals, I don't have a lot of years left and I want to see this happen. Unfortunately, I joined too late to also be member #7 of this org but I would be more than happy to be member #3,000.

Frank Colver
BTW - A lot of good my member #7 does in my efforts to change the USHPA.

[Rick Masters]

When my wife and I incorporated the Cross Country Pilots Association as a non-profit in 1984, it was quick and not very difficult.
I know things have changed some since then.


https://store.nolo.com/products/how-to-form-a-nonprofit-corporation-in-california-non.html
We used Nolo Press as a guide. It worked without a glitch.

We need to limit liability so we can have a real BOD

I have addressed this issue a few times. It's very important.
When I suggest accepting ratings from other parties, such as the USHPA, foreign orgs and autonomous Chapters, rather than issue them ourselves, it is with the intent to limit our liability.
When I suggest we not be actively involved with towing, competitions, parachuting or tandem, it is with the intent to limit our liability.
When I suggest we rely on state recreational liability statutes, rather than involve ourselves with a big kettle of money for our own insurance, it is with the intent to limit our liability.
I would not choose to move forward with incorporation until everyone is on the same page.

There is no grandiose scheme in my vision for the US Hawks.
The Hawks should supply only the basic foundation for free flight with hang gliders.
That means we support foundational hang gliding, which is simply hooking into a wing and running off an incline.
Everything else - everything else - is left to other autonomous parties.
If you think about it, nothing at all is lost while liability is reduced to a bare minimum.

[Bob Kuczewski]

It's my fault that we haven't been incorporated yet.

Here's what I struggle with. It's my understanding that incorporating as a non-profit limits the organization's ability to participate in political free speech. That just bothers me, and it's one of the reasons I've been dragging my feet. I also don't like that what amounts to an "IRS status" can end up influencing our organization in any way. The constitution gives us rights as free men, and it bothers me that we have to give them up or compromise them in any way to fit in some legislated box.

As for Nolo Press, I couldn't agree more. I bought a book titled "Patent it Yourself" and used it to file and obtain a patent (long expired now). It was a big help.

Despite my reservations (above), I do think this is something that we should do.  

[Rick Masters]

incorporating as a non-profit limits the organization's ability to participate in political free speech

So put it on your personal web site.
We're trying to build a hang gliding association, not a Swiss Army knife.

[DaveSchy]

Under penalty of enduring yet another Forbonian hissy fit, re-posting the "bored" minutes is not allowed under the secret terms of being a "Forboner".
However, my crude, uninformed, back of envelope guesstimation of membership based on available PUBLIC information reveals my numbers to be crude, uninformed, and completely "Forbesian" in a lack of accuracy or pertinence.
Please disregard my crude, uniformed, erroneous and deceptive earlier posting, and consider it nothing more than a crude, uninformed Forbinification of U$HPA's mighty, mighty might.