[JoeF]

Rick said of FFFF: "to simply join their club."
Rick, to join and fly .... that club requires current USHPA paid membership.
Their present liaison via SUP with GGNRA has such line of red tape built in.
For some pilots that scene is accepted or tolerated. But such does not allow the arriving park visitor sans USHPA to enter the sky and land from the sky in the outlined arena written in the SUP.

A gelling of a different thrust:

===================================
Thanks for insightful phone session. And for serving so many in the sport!
Like the FF cam! Nice. We'll talk again, I hope. Have good day.
Many more years for you in the sky.
today is my last day of being 75 ... and I am still launching HGs aggressively.

You helped gel the expression of our thrust:

We are aiming to be an individual visitor with wing sans membership and sans insurance and enter sky and return to earth off and on lands owned by the People of the United States managed for the People by GGNRA, a sector of the United States government guided by the Congress of the United States. To have equity with other individual recreationists of hundreds of sorts of activity. People die walking in lands owned by the People; People die hiking and rock climbing: boulder loosed onto others. Etc The person doing damage is to be held responsible. The People's government is not responsible for damages done by visitors to the lands.
==================

[Rick Masters]

I posted a link to this Kite Strings thread. A few minutes latter I did the same on the Funston General Discussion sub-forum.

It is perfectly understandable why decent people would not post a link to that site.
I made the mistake of posting there once, expecting a reasonable discussion of hang gliding with a knowledgable person.
I was immediately verbally attacked and insulted in a most foul manner for no reason at all.
I did not return.

This report is consistent with the way I was banned and Joe Faust's report above.

I think "consistent" is the wrong word. You are comparing apples to oranges.
Joe does not immediately engage in personal attacks and without cause offend people with extreme vulgarity.
Joe was censored unfairly for discussing a hang gliding topic someone disagreed with.
Big difference.

I know the issue with your banning goes deeper, but the language violation by itself is appropriate for not linking.
To require the acceptance of this level of foulness in discussions of our sport destroys the effectiveness of the discussion.
That said, we are all free to go there and read, or even subject ourselves to foul abuse if we wish.
____________________________

Joe said
Rick, to join and fly .... that club requires current USHPA paid membership.

That's too complicated. I am suggesting FFFF simply accept membership from any hang glider pilot. That's simple.
Either USHGRS or USHPA ratings, and a simple liability waiver, should be recognized.
The restrictive USHPA demands are not an advantage for FFFF.
Without them, club membership and club income would rise.

[JoeF]

Rick noted regarding a potential future for FFFF: "club membership and club income would rise"
My comment: I am keeping an open ear to the possibility that the "club" might not want membership to "rise" too much; such might mean less air time for the good ole boys and gals, the "club". I do not have but an open ear toward such potential hypothesis. Who wants far away non-locals at "our" site? Dana Point surfers ran into trouble for such flow.

The Lunada Bay Boys have been assaulting outsiders since the 1960s—and local police won't do anything to stop it.
ArticleHere ...
The moneyed locals believe they deserve private access to beachfront land that legally belongs to the public.

One may just want to walk on public-use land and access public sky.

[Rick Masters]

the "club" might not want membership to "rise" too much; such might mean less air time for the good ole boys and gals...

Gosh, Joe, are you saying they have a private club on public land? Federal land?
That can't be right. FFFF must not exclude rated hang glider pilots.
I guess we could check and see if they are allowing USHGRS-rated hang glider pilots to fly.
Are they? Is there a record of refusal?
It would certainly be a good idea for them to do so.
To avoid public and governmental scrutiny, it would be best for them not to develop a record of exclusion.
Otherwise they might place their club and its very existence at risk!    

FFFF, please, please institute this change.
Accomodating it will not be too big a deal.
Resisting it could destroy you.
FAR 103: ...pilots of ultralight vehicles are not required by Federal regulation to be certificated.
https://www.usua.org/Rules/faa103.htm

[JoeF]

Yep. I was told very pointedly that if I did not join a certain private corporation that they would not let me fly there. I told them that it would be good for all if they could figure out a way for an individual major age HG rated pilot not to be given resistance when he takes his turn in order for launch and follows traffic rules and flys at the bluffs. Response: Ain't gonna happen. And in my inner voice I heard a Seinfeld episode: "Never, never, never!".
I've asked today from GGNRA for a ruling on that kind of scene. I used the published form clickable from GGNRA Customer Service page. Others might want to send them a note.

My input: \\Sept 20, 2018
We wish to communicate well and clearly with GGNRA regarding hang gliding at Fort Funston. To do that we would like copy PDFs? of all FOIA covered documents related to the SUPs with Fellow Feathers of Fort Funston. Please also give best email contact regarding hang gliding at Fort Funston bluffs. Thank you.
----------------

We wish to apply for a ruling by GGNRA regarding how a visitor is to be treated at Fort Funston bluffa, particularly a visitor who is certified rated with adequate hang gliding skill but choosea not to join any particular private corporation in order to access FAA regulated airspace from the bluffs at Fort Funston.

The individual visitor would follow the launch sequence rules and flight traffic rules posted there. As visitors doing 100s of different activities without being coerced to join particular private corporations and without having to carry third-party liability insurance for each of their activities, the individual recreating hang gliding individual of major age would not have joined third-party corporaton and would not be burdened to have to carry third-party liability insurance. The visitor would be willing to sign a Waiver similar to that extended by Los Angeles County that has the visitor state the obvious: hold GGNRA and all interested parties harmless for the visitor's activities. Visitors generally tacitly are responsible for their actions; that is how we understand the NPS.

GGNRA next SUP coming up for Fellow Feathers of Fort Funston (FFFF) could include a clause that they must treat such above visitor with dignity and opening sharing and take turns launching without prejudice to membership status relative to any private corporation.

Thank you,
Joe Faust, United States Hang Gliding Ratings System
http://USHGRS.org/

Sent on Sept 20, 2018 in public form reachable through a click at
https://www.nps.gov/goga/learn/news/contactpublicaffairs.htm

It is timely. Here is from FFFF meeting minutes of Sept. 6, 2018 The club meets monthly.

September 6th 2018 Fellow Feather’s Meeting Minutes
GGNRA Liaison Report (Steve Rodrigues): SUP expires 12/31. C. Carillo spoke with kite flyer
in LZ. Asked to add kite flying clause into SUP. Discussion about modifying SUP regarding
aerobatics. Clarify exclusion just for observation deck (not all Funston).

I am not clear what FFF is intending to ask GGNRA concerning "kite flying clause into SUP" but I have a gut feel that someone does not know that almost 100% of FFFF pilots are "kite flying" ... Hmm, they might be writing themselves out of being on the parkland!

The TIME IS NOW to contact GGNRA concerning the inequity of excluding individual rated HG recreating pilots from taking turns at entering FAA airspace at the park that is permitted for using for hang gliding while not having government SUPs work effectively to coerce joining private corporations or be inequitably burdened by third party insurance; inequitably relative to the 100s of other unburdened activities that occur on the People's Land. Compose carefully and write to the GGNRA your point of view and request.

FFFF might do well to enter something like this: "Sure, posted traffic and conduct signs should do the trick; we will all take our turns: FFFF gal goes into air; then VisitorNonMemberRatedGuy goes, then FFFF private-clubGuy goes, etc. Fun. Good time had by all. FFFF and Visitor could volunteer mentoring others. "

CONTACT THE GGNRA with your input.
https://www.nps.gov/goga/learn/news/contactpublicaffairs.htm

[Rick Masters]

FFFF, you should not invite this action.
Please re-think this.
You are standing without foundation.
Change your policy immediately. Serve hang gliding.
Otherwise, this may not end well.
I don't want to see that.
FFFF has been a great accomplishment.
Don't throw it away. Don't damage the sport of hang glidng.

[JoeF]

2018 Club Officers/Executive Committee/Board of Directors (elected):

President: Rob Johnson
Vice President: Wayne Michelsen
Secretary: Chris Valley
Treasurer: Steve Rodrigues
Technology Officer: Chuck Kranz
Safety Director: John Simpson
Clubhouse Manager: Rob Johnson
Appointed Positions:

GGNRA Liaison: Steve Rodrigues
Fellow Feathers Tandem Administrator: Urs Kellenberger

Descriptions of Officer/Board of Director responsibilities are in the Club Bylaws in the Rules and Bylaws section.

Contact Us:

To contact any of the club officers, please send email to:

President - pres[at]flyfunston(dot)org
Vice President - vice[at]flyfunston(dot)org
Secretary - sec[at]flyfunston(dot)org
Treasurer - treas[at]flyfunston(dot)org
Safety Director - safetydirector[at]flyfunston(dot)org
Clubhouse Manager - clubhousemgr[at]flyfunston(dot)org
Technology Officer - technology[at]flyfunston(dot)org
Tandem Administrator - tandem[at]flyfunston(dot)org
GGNRA Liaison - liaison[at]flyfunston(dot)org

[Rick Masters]

Joe, I have no ill feeling toward these people but, lacking any more energy to reiterate the obvious, this is the forum where I post so they can come here or face the consequences without my input.

[JoeF]

Each of them was just invited to this forum and this precise topic. About 15 or so others were invited here also. USHPA was invited via info@ as well as direct invite to MGF. Pioneers were invited here also. Hope they come and work this thing out.

Joe Faust <joefaust333@gmail.com>
9:38 PM (1 hour ago)
to pres, vice, sec, treas, safetydirector, clubhousemgr, technology, tandem, liaison, Richard, Bob, Tony, ljr1, Rob, Joe, John, USHPA, Mark, Scott, Davis, Dave, Dave, Frank, and others [copy-past did not capture suppressed name, eg. Joe G was invited, ]

FFFF needs to drop its rule #1 : USHPA current.
And have equity with Visitor Rated Pilot (sans USHPA and sans third-party insurance, but perhaps redundant Waiver).
USHGRS, USHHGA, and USHPA certified ratings are in the mix. Before too long USHPA will be just a PG magazine waving a vulnerable RRRR. FFFF, aim at an equitable solution avoiding exclusion and embracing inclusion. You already have a non-FFFF member form, but its #1 rule needs to be dropped for individual visitors who carry a big umbrella sans joining third-party corporations.
=======================================
Wise to see full topic thread at
HERE
and maybe join the conversation.

Banning the conversation from FF forum is not working to snuff concerns. Indeed GGNRA should not by statute approve of hiding, erasing, blocking open conversation about issues affecting the public at FF. Who knows what other matter gets erased, blocked, hidden? Best to stay fully open to gain trust and respect for all the citizens of the US and visitors to US.

May they all arrive and help resolve this matter. Let's see who shows and participates in solving the matter. Since FFFF banned the topic and erased posts on the topic, its forum is sterile. Since USHPA has no forum, then it should show here where it is invited. Since sg blocks and does not retain open discussion, he might show here. Please invite caring fellows and gals here. Erika? Could someone invite her here, please.
On her FB, I just sent her an invite to this topic thread.

ErikaKleinInvitedFFFFtopic.JPG (24 KiB) Viewed 5708 times

[Rick Masters]

I would not single out Erika as it places her in an untenable position with her employer.