[JoeF]

Redundant?
What does that mean?
What does that mean?
===========================================
In 2015 Dan Brown in FFFF forum:

FROM: HERE
Re: USHPA INSURANCE EMAIL 22OCT2015
Postby Dan Brown » Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:32 pm

A number of years ago I contacted the Dept. of Interior attorney who was handling legal matters for the GGNRA about the insurance requirement. The GGNRA is part of Interior.

The attorney agreed that the insurance requirement was redundant because of the Recreational Use Immunity Statute. The Statute provides immunity for landowners allowing recreational users on their property. It does not apply to commercial users. The GGNRA rationale for the insurance is that it provides an extra layer of protection.

The attorney did not disagree when I said that the insurance requirement is discriminatory because it applies only to hang gliding and not to the other actives at Funston like dog walking. Dog bites are more common than hang gliding injures.

In theory pilots should be able to fly at Funston without USHPA membership if they have their own insurance. However USHPA prohibits clubs from allowing non-USHPA pilots to fly at its insured sites. If an insured, non-USHPA pilot flew at a USHPA site, USHPA would pull its insurance.

USHPA is attempting to establish a Risk Retention Group that will provide insurance to pilots. Doctors have similar Groups. California law requires that the Groups be “independent”. It is unknown if USHPA would respect the independence of the Group and allow all hang glider pilots to join or would restrict membership to USHPA pilots. If all pilots are allowed to join, USHPA would lose its monopoly and pilots could fly at Funston and at other hang gliding sites without becoming members of USHPA. USHPA would be like the Sierra Club. You can hike in a national park without joining it.

Many points mentioned by Dan may need vetting, and same for his assumptions. Meanwhile some notes in response to the 2015 note (and here we are now in 2018)"

1. Consider that it may be probable (since millions of visitors are not having to carry insurance to recreate on NPS lands) that an independent visitor may step into sky with wing without having to carry burden of insurance nor membership in any private corporation.

2. Dan seems to say (we do not have a recording of the attorney) that the USHPA insurance is "redundant" "redundant". If Dan is correct that if independent HG visitor is allowed to fly, then FFFF would lose USHPA insurance [must question unfair monopoly angles here]. Full clarification is needed here. But, if the NPS attorney is correct about "redundant" "redundant" then NPS would be in clear ANYWAY as regards FFFF pilots and independent pilot.

3. Of course, visiting that forum for conversation and quotes may not be a reasonable thing, as we have discovered that that forum cannot be trusted as it deletes posts that are on topic. So much is lost when a forum begins to play deletion and banning games!

4. Assuming "redundant" "redundant" applies per Dan's report of NPS attorney, then the FF site could easily be opened to independent HG pilot with no burden of insurance on the independent HG Pilot. So, GGNRA, please send FFFF a MOU to be attached to the current SUP: "Do not rebuff independent HG Pilot. Do not ask about insurance. Do not ask about membership in any third party corporation. Just be fellow feathered pilot and discuss local site traffic rules and landing rules and the like. Upon local review, slap that sticker on his or her helmet. Be kind to a web-footed friend, for the duck may be somebody's mother. "



Footnote: At age 8 I was picked up in Oakland, California, and vanned with other kids into San Francisco to sell subscriptions to the San Francisco Chronicle to people at their homes and apartments. The adult driver would lead us in singing the song featured in the two videos. And now at 76 ... I am seeing a use for the same song here to FFFF. Footnote to footnote: I was top subscription seller in our group; I learned to keep my foot in the door until they signed up for the Chronicle.
There is a way to be kind in this matter. Let's work out a solution where independent non-insured visitors to NPS lands may step into sky with wing parallel with one or two or three or more clubs that do their club thing. Hey, once redundancy helps to set aside the USHPA monopolistic intrusion, independent HG Pilots might join the local club.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Of course, visiting that forum for conversation and quotes may not be a reasonable thing, as we have discovered that that forum cannot be trusted as it deletes posts that are on topic. So much is lost when a forum begins to play deletion and banning games!

We've seen no meaningful responses from Steve Rodrigues regarding the censorship and destruction of history on the Fellow Feathers Forum. A few hours ago I got this email message:

RE: USHAWKS.org, USHGRS.org, and HANGGLIDING.org

Hi Bob,

I do not want to be a member of the U.S. Hawks and I do not want my name associated with the organization. This is a formal request that you please remove my name from both your personal and U.S. Hawks records.

In addition, I do not want to receive any emails from the U.S Hawks, so please insure that I am removed from that email list and your personal email list as well.

Thank you,

Steve Rodrigues
USHPA # 30605

I have honored Steve's request and deactivated his account and his membership in the U.S. Hawks. I've also added Steve's name to our no-email list. However, the record of his membership and his actual posts are part of the U.S. Hawks history. I believe that's consistent with our terms of service.

Steve Rodrigues aka srskypuppy

To start off, I would like to say that I do genuinely appreciate that you are willing to join a conversation regarding the problems within USHPA.

It was very nice of you Logan to give Steve the benefit of the doubt.

[JoeF]

Public land grab, public airspace access grab: censor, close communications, build fences, avoid interaction:: maybe non-private club people will just quietly go away so a few may have it all at FFFF.
Finally, one day, the club FFFF will have to share the airspace and public land without forcing the joining of a private repugnant corporation that struts in a nether world of monopoly gained by faults of some history. The faults are coming to the front, but add another F to FFFF to get FFFFF Fenced FFFF. Steve Rodrigues could have stayed some while and exercised leadership to help cure the inequities of early handshakes with public land. There is still opportunity, Steve, to help form a memorandum of understanding that has GGNRA fulfill the higher mandates and principles that removes an inequitable monopoly at Funston. And Steve, drop the odd censoring and remove the very odd banning at the FFFF forum Hey, that is six: FFFFFF. Better not go for a seventh "F" for the deal, Steve. Do the right thing soon. Work for equity to be free in your leadership flight. Hey, that could be an 8th and 9th F. FFFFFFFFF. SR: http://www.energykitesystems.net/HGpilots/SteveRodrigues.html

[Bob Kuczewski]

A year ago this past week (Apr 03, 2018) ...

... Ignorant does not mean "stupid." It means one was not aware of the facts.
It is not an accusation. It is an invitation to higher discourse.
When BobK presented his facts, two pathways remained for his counterpart.
Essentially: Put up or shut up.
BobK is found doing this kind of thing all the time.
Some find it irritating.
I find it magnificent.

When Bob believes he is right, he does not back down.
People should pay attention to this.
In a world awash with PC bullcrap, we need heros who stand their ground and say what they think.
In all walks of life, these people are rare.
They are precious. They make us think. They make us question the status quo.
The status quo seems dedicated to grinding them down and the herd is expected to follow.
You will notice the U.S. Hawks is composed largely of strays from the herd.
We are suspicious of the status quo.
There is something wrong with it.
Bob is the tip of our spear.

Lately I have become fond of the teachings of Jordon Peterson.
Perhaps the most profound idea he presents is that of the future self directing the present self toward excellence.
To some, this will seem unbearably metaphysical. I understand. But the concept remains, at the least, entertaining.
The present self, in those few who will dare, strives to create a better future self.
And all the while, the future self reaches back into its past to pull the present self toward excellence.
But excellence can be a bitch.
Minute by minute, hour by hour, we struggle to transcend our present selves by creating a slightly improved future self.
We are driven by the vision of a goal: the glorious future self revealed; stunningly correct and triumphant.
The most stubborn of these protagonists, like our BobK, may seem quite irritating at times.
But they are also correct. ...

At the time Rick wrote this, Jordan Peterson was not yet on my radar (Rick was way ahead of me). It wasn't until Bill Cummings posted this video that I became a fan (Bill was also way ahead of me).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMj9wsrPE5U

I appreciate Rick's words even more now in hindsight. Thanks Rick.   

P.S. I found this quote by following a mostly unrelated link to this US Hawks topic on kitestrings.org. Thanks Brian.   

[Bob Kuczewski]

It so often happens that I continually find gems on this forum whenever I'm search for something else.

... Ignorant does not mean "stupid." It means one was not aware of the facts.
It is not an accusation. It is an invitation to higher discourse.
When BobK presented his facts, two pathways remained for his counterpart.
Essentially: Put up or shut up.
BobK is found doing this kind of thing all the time.
Some find it irritating.
I find it magnificent.

When Bob believes he is right, he does not back down.
People should pay attention to this.
In a world awash with PC bullcrap, we need heros who stand their ground and say what they think.
In all walks of life, these people are rare.
They are precious. They make us think. They make us question the status quo.
The status quo seems dedicated to grinding them down and the herd is expected to follow.
You will notice the U.S. Hawks is composed largely of strays from the herd.
We are suspicious of the status quo.
There is something wrong with it.
Bob is the tip of our spear.

Lately I have become fond of the teachings of Jordon Peterson.
Perhaps the most profound idea he presents is that of the future self directing the present self toward excellence.
To some, this will seem unbearably metaphysical. I understand. But the concept remains, at the least, entertaining.
The present self, in those few who will dare, strives to create a better future self.
And all the while, the future self reaches back into its past to pull the present self toward excellence.
But excellence can be a bitch.
Minute by minute, hour by hour, we struggle to transcend our present selves by creating a slightly improved future self.
We are driven by the vision of a goal: the glorious future self revealed; stunningly correct and triumphant.
The most stubborn of these protagonists, like our BobK, may seem quite irritating at times.
But they are also correct. ...

Rick's explanation of Jordan Peterson's ideas are one of those gems. It's also in accordance with one of my fundamental beliefs. I believe that we should live our lives in a way that we would be proud to look back on and remember. Thanks Jordan, and thanks Rick.