[TadEareckson]

Bob,

But individual states can pass laws requiring you to buy car insurance (effectively paying in advance for crimes that you haven't committed).

1. And the FAA can and does mandate that - if you want to aerotow it - you pay for a glider that can handle about twice as many Gs as even an aerobatic flyer is likely to use. And I see that as an unmitigated GOOD THING.

2. I'm pretty sure that one person can slam into another car and be responsible for what happens without having committed a crime - sudden unpredictable medical issue, fer instance.

Individual states can pass laws requiring you to buy health insurance (again making you pay for a service that you may never need or want).

So do we leave Bille Floyd on the bluff to die of exposure if he isn't covered? Or do we all chip in so we don't take a chance on dying of exposure or second hand smoke (thank you very much, Capitol Hang Glider Association and Highland Aerosports crew) induced lung cancer?

Individual states can pass laws on gambling and prostitution and many other things that might imprison you in their state while being perfectly legal in a neighboring state.

And lots of them - as well as the people of the United States as a whole - do really good jobs of gutting the constitutional protections and defining many large groups of people as subhuman and undeserving of them. But one tries anyway.

So would you rather be in a SWTHG prison or just banned from their forum?

I'd rather attack and damage SWTHG as much as possible while it's small and weak.

As I pointed out above, the people of the United States can expect some uniformity, but they can expect difference as well - some of which are much more severe than being banned from a forum.

1. Hitler started out by banning from the fora people whom he didn't like and were critical of him. Once that's accomplished everything else gets pretty easy.

2. When my sister got on the plane yesterday morning to go home she wasn't flying under Southwest Texas "theories" and regulations. (And she doesn't teach biology that way EITHER.)

At the current time, you just have to convince me that you're trying to help grow the sport of hang gliding in your region. If you can convince me that you're trying to do that, then maybe you could start your own Chapter.

tipvortex - 2009/11/09
New Jersey

Tad, Do you EVER say anything POSITIVE about this sport? I think you were warned, I'm just waiting for the moment I can wave 'bye bye' (good riddance).

It seems that because YOU can't land on your feet you expect everyone else, including comp pilots like John, to land on wheels.

After re-reading your FAA proposal it would be interesting to see a show of hands from tow operators that are here on the org, how many of them would welcome your presence as a customer....you're POISON!

GO AWAY and LEAVE US ALONE!

Jack Axaopoulos

Guess AeroTow didnt take my last warning seriously.

tipvortex

Thank you!

Mike Bomstad
Spokane

Thank you!

Jim Rooney

I think my opinion on Mr Negative are pretty clear, so I'll just say - Ditto.

Ah, with that out of the way....
Back on topic

Sky_Walker - 2009/11/10
Trenton, Georgia

I can't say that I'm sorry to see him go.

BUT ...

I really wish the sport had a die hard advocate for safety improvements because I think we have alot of room to improve the sport. Sometimes Tad makes some good points, he just goes about things in the most ineffective and offensive way. Imagine someone as passionate as Tad that was a great communicator who could influence people and make things happen ...

Honestly now that he is banned I'd like to see some rational discussion about some of his safety concerns without his obnoxiousness making me leave the threads.

I've only been a pilot since September 07 and there have been numerous serious accidents at my local flying site. I don't feel like we do a good job of compiling the information on the incidents to make use in an effective lessons learned program. I wonder alot lately "What can I do to make a difference" ?

HG.org really has the ability to make a big difference in this sport, I'd like to challenge all of us to figure out how to use this wonderful place(that SG has so generously provided) as a powerful advocate for safety in this sport.

SG I know your reluctant to ban anyone but I support you on this one. It had gotten to the point that I avoided mentioning safety at all so as not to lure Tad into any thread of discussion.

Thanks for all that you do again !
-
H2 FL CL FSL
WW Eagle 164

Jason Rogers (gasdive)
Port Macquarie, New South Wales

Well I think he's probably right that there is a problem. I don't know if what he proposes is the right solution, but it's better than mine.

I looked at the stats, I looked at the calibre of pilots who were dying in tow accidents (far better than me). I concluded towing is simply far too dangerous and gave it up.

I've never seen a fatal, but what I have seen scares the hell out of me, far more than any foot launched issues. He proposes stronger weaklinks. I've been out towing with what were probably 2 G weaklinks. I've seen someone break one and do a full stall, tailslide and recover. Their basebar skimmed through the two inch grass on the runway on the recover. I've watched another group with their own gear. I don't know what weaklinks they were using. Saw someone lock out at 1000 feet up, stabilise in a vertical dive doing at least 100 knots (maybe much more, he lost five to six hundred feet in two to three seconds) and break his link about two to three hundred feet up. He only just managed to pull out of the dive about fifty feet from the ground, tail wind with over 120 knots of ground speed. I never thought I'd hear a glider make a sound like that.

I loved towing. Really really loved it. To stand in a flat field, yell GO GO GO and then suddenly but roaring into the sky was an amazing experience. I just felt that every time I did it I was rolling the dice...
-
Intermediate, Moyes Mars 170, Moyes GTR 162, Airborne Fun 190, Airborne Sting 168

Jack Axaopoulos

I still dont know if I buy into the stronger weak link hypothesis.

Ive broken weak links on purpose at altitude by banking up and pushing out abruptly. That is a mechanism I want to keep, not give up.

The downside is, you will get more weak link breaks while near the ground, early in a tow, or whatever.
BUT... you should be maintaining proper airspeed anyway, then its not an issue.

Saying there is a problem with weak links being too weak, and breaking near the ground, leaving you in a near stall, is sorta like saying there is a problem foot launching slow off a mountain with your nose too high. Well DUH.
Both of these are preventable and up to you to prevent.

That said, I am not confident that I am right. Id love to see ONE tow park switch systems for a year or longer, and compare tow incidents before and after. Its the only way to really test which way is better IMO.

Ryan Voight

With all of the safety improvements over the years, accident statistics tend to hold steady. Look at motor vehicle accidents- make cars safer, raise speed limits, same number of accidents. There is no shortage of education regarding motor vehicles, and they seem as safe as they can be... yet people still crash them all the time. It's almost a statistical inevitability that if you drive a car long enough you will be involved in an accident.

I'm not suggesting that we hang glide long enough we are bound to have an accident... If I believed every time I flew 'this could be the one' I wouldn't do this anymore... but the statistics state that, regardless of safety improvements, people will continue to have accidents.

I would wager that there would be the same number of accidents regardless of tow system used... but I'd love to be proven wrong on that.

David W. Johnson

To the original post: there is no legal requirement from the government to report accidents. My park, however, has in the club application that members will report all mishaps to the park. I suspect parks have some kind of obligation to repot to USHPA, but I can't cite the requirement from the bylaws. I suspect someone hereon could do that.

Jason

>
Tad, Do you EVER say anything POSITIVE about this sport?...
<

oh thats beautiful

Jim Gaar

I sure as hell would not tow him

After re-reading your FAA proposal it would be interesting to see a show of hands from tow operators

I too was appalled after reading the submission! I'm pretty sure it will go into the round file. The FAA is way too busy to pay much attention to his manifesto as it's just not true and history shows it as so.

Jim Rooney

Ah, back to civil discussion.

Something to note about leaving carts....
There is a drastic difference when being pulled by a 582 or a 914/912.

People have a tendency to leave the cart too soon when behind a 582. With the big tugs however, the problem is the opposite. This is especially obvious when you take someone that tows behind 582s and put them behind a 914.

It doesn't sound like a problem at first... more speed is good right? As with all things, yes but .... "to a point". See what happens behind a 914 if you use 582 technique is this....

You accelerate very rapidly of course and gain a lot of speed. I call it leaving the cart at Mach 5. No problem yet (well, there's a small one, but we'll get to that). As you leave the cart, the tug is already a good bit above you, so you ease off the bar pressure (you've got a ton at this point) and this is just about the same time you slam into the prop wash. Your weaklink lets go.

After a couple weaklink breaks in this manner, you start to wonder if Tad's right about these "weak" weaklinks. Nevermind that it's a technique problem not an equipment problem. Nevermind that using a stronglink greatly increases the chances that you will hurt yourself in a very bad way.

See, weaklinks don't care about speed. They care about load. Going Mach5 and easing off the pitch, even a little bit, greatly increases your load... remember that whole bit about windspeed being an exponential factor?

So there you are with in a highly loaded situation, and then you shockload the system by hitting the propwash. Not good.

Your weaklink is doing exactly what it should do.

woodysr2

I think that it was time Tad was asked to leave as he was poison of the worst kind.
I think it is perfectly acceptable to be concerned and deep down he probably thinks he is right but his way of going about was totally out of order

adi

For what it's worth, I think Tad spoke a lot of sense.

Jason Rogers - 2009/11/12

It's your forum, you make the rules, and lots of people didn't like him...

Ok, so you know I'm gonna say "but"

But... isn't that what the ignore button is for?

I've only hit it once for someone on here. I thought that they were more deserving of a ban... I won't go into why they were bad, but Tad seems to be only repetitive and somewhat annoying.

Jim Rooney

I don't think it's the severity, it's the repeated warnings.

Over and over and over again, he decides not to listen and plows ahead with his "everyone is an idiot but me" mantra and his page long sermons.

It's not his forum and he seems to not understand (correction, not respect) that fact.

When someone crosses the line, they get told they've crossed it. What they do next I think is what matters... do they shape up? or is it time to ship out?

Tad chose the latter time and time again.
Good riddance.

Jason Rogers

Well if you think it's the right thing then that's good enough for me. Your people skills are much better than mine.

sbunner

Just look how smoothly the discussion evolved after the ban. I enjoyed reading others input and learned some things without having to go through Tad's annoying banter. Thanks!

Jack Axaopoulos

gasdive,

One of the stated goals of this site is to promote HG. MOST views on this site are NOT from members but from visitors, they have no ignore button.

Having Tad run around every day giving the impression that there is a massive weekly slaughter of pilots at tow parks due to their horribly dangerous devices surely doesnt promote HG. Especially when the safety records are quite excellent.

Like Jim said, theyve gone a decade with no fatalities at their tow park. Pretty damn good I say.

Yet listening to Tad, you would think guys were dying all over the place
He's been nothing but misleading and negative and ignored multiple warnings from me. So He's GONE

Paul Hurless

Great job, SG. You gave him plenty of warning that he chose to ignore.

At the current time, you just have to convince me that you're trying to help grow the sport of hang gliding in your region.

Jack Axaopoulos

One of the stated goals of this site is to promote HG.

At the current time I have ZERO interest in trying to help grow the sport in my or any other goddam region on the face of the planet. Hang gliding is a broken dangerous system controlled - globally - by incompetent, stupid, evil SH*THEADS from whom the couple dozen decent people currently in it need protection. If the space shuttle's heat shielding is routinely getting chewed up by flying chunks of foam insulation you don't build and fly more of them - you ground what you have and fix the problem.

...you're POISON!
Thank you!
Thank you!
...Mr Negative...
...way too busy to pay much attention to his manifesto as it's just not true...
Ah, back to civil discussion.
...he was poison of the worst kind.
...it's just not true and history shows it as so.
...do they shape up? or is it time to ship out?
...Good riddance.
Just look how smoothly the discussion evolved after the ban.
Great job, SG.

Any of that sound familiar?

If you can convince me that you're trying to do that, then maybe you could start your own Chapter.

I'm trying to form a chapter - but it's based on competence, not regional geography ('cause hang gliders don't function much differently from one state or continent to another).

When we get enough people seriously interested, then I think we'll make those decisions.

Who's "we"? People like Pilgrim? I can hardly wait!

I got a better idea. Make some decisions now which will get the kind of people we want seriously interested and repel all the a**holes and serial killers back to the organizations and discussion groups where they'll feel right at home and be able to have civil smooth discussions about how best to respond when your 130 pound Greenspot blows and what kind of hook knife is best to use when your bent pin release welds itself shut.

Right now we have to grow for it to matter.

People who manage orchards often hafta do A LOT of serious pruning early on to get the trees to grow in the desired manner. (If you need any suggestions...)

You're still here aren't you?

FYI: You're making Sam's decision to ban you from the SW Texas forum look better all the time.

Tad, I generally agree with Pilgrim's comments above. You continually bolster people's decisions to ban you, and you continue to make me look foolish for keeping you on this forum.

Tad, you can post what you want, but I'm giving you a warning about the profanity. I'm asking you to stop using words that can't be used during prime-time broadcast television. Please acknowledge that you've read this.

So far.

Yet you've certainly been critical of me.

And you've certainly been critical of ME. And people who aren't incompetent idiots, liars, and cowards can generally withstand whatever criticism comes their way - especially when it comes from people who aren't incompetent idiots, liars, and cowards.

Well, the US Hawks isn't a dictatorship...

Yeah? When was the last time we had an election for a US Hawks officer?

...and I hope it won't become one.

I actually hope it stays one indefinitely. I've seen how democracies work when the kind of testosterone poisoned, brain dead scumbags who constitute about 95 percent of this sport are given the opportunity to vote on something.

So it's a good thing we're here!!!

We'll see. Right now I'm not all that optimistic.

Warren,

I'll get to it.

[TadEareckson]

Tad, you are really pushing your luck with the insistence of talking like a street thug.

Sometimes when you wanna change things you gotta push your luck.

Are those the only words you can come up with to convey your thoughts clearly?

If I knew better ones I'd use them. (I'll bet there are some really good online resources.)

So much for creativity.

I used up my lifetime allotment the previous decade.

Is that the mouth you talk out of in mixed company or in someone's house?

I don't know - it's been so long since I've been allowed to be in mixed company or someone else's house.

I'm sorry, it does detract from your message.

Other people have had the same message and done much worse.

People want to live in happy la la land, especially pilots, and that is the way it is.

I know. And my goal is to make them as miserable as possible any way I can.

A real dictatorship is coming down your street. It's the camera mounted on a pole on the corner.

Let's get those made mandatory by the FAA for all aerotow operations and do live web feeds - that would make it a lot harder for USHGA and the Flight Park Mafia to maintain their sterling safety records and blame everything they can't cover up on pilot error.

Parents have been brainwashed to believe their children's health depends on 60 or 70 mercury laden disease filled vaccinations starting at birth and ever more throughout the rest of their immune weakened life.

How does that compare to the mercury we dump into the oceans via our coal fired power plants and recover in the form of tuna sandwiches?

Pilots stare at a sky filled with persistant contrails that sink, expand and eventually cover the sky with a bland milky metalic haze and fool themselves to believe that this is normal.

And you say these contribute to a reduction of human fertility rates? Any way I can make a donation? Can I deduct it from my income tax?

The ability to fly to goal over the bodies of dead comrades scraped off the tarmac in the interest of a child's contest?

They're not dying in the interests of children's contests. They're dying because the people running them are a bunch of war criminals who never get held accountable for their incompetence and conflict of interest based negligence. Just like at Hobbs twenty-one years ago.

...where you agree with Davis is the big negative for me.

If Davis says that a lot of problems go away with wheel landings and I agree is that gonna be a big negative for you?

I see Davis as an idiot or a conniving, fraudulent huckster...

And he can't be both?

You and he both worship at the satanic altar of Darwin, Galton and Malthus.

I think we really oughta give Satan a shot at getting things right. It's pretty obvious that God has never had a freakin' clue.

Atheistic brothers wishing the death of others... it's sooo green to wipe out humanity, eh?

It's doing it to itself. The dream is for it to happen without it wiping out all the other life forms first. And, of course, to start with the flight park operators.

The polar bears and penguins are drowning... (lies)

Yeah. Biologists. Real scum. Every year I submit my Christmas Bird Count results and every year some biologist deletes all my Hooded Mergansers, Harriers, Kestrels, Quail, Woodcock, owls, and Meadowlark. Obviously just so he can get some more outrageous funding for one of his "habitat protection" scams and use it to add to his fleet of Learjets. How I DESPISE these parasites.

I guess it's a good thing you two are atheist so you don't have to worry about burning in hell for the dictatorship you're selling.

I got a special deal with Satan. I rescue a few rattlesnakes and copperheads from Christians, he gives me a nice cool bat cave at one of the upper levels and lets me out at night to sneak into churches and piss in baptismal fonts. That's gotta beat an eternity of harp music and loving everyone.

[Bob Kuczewski]

I'd rather attack and damage SWTHG as much as possible while it's small and weak.

Then Sam was a good President to kick you off of the SWTHG forum.

Yaaayyy Sam!!!     

Warren, thanks for the post. You don't post often but when you've got something to say, you do it well.    

Tad, I browsed through your posts and it's not worth my time to reply to most of what you've written. You were originally complaining that Sam banned you from his forum and I pointed out that individual states (within the United States) have far more latitude than that. You haven't provided anything to counter that argument. You went on and on about everything else, but you didn't address that central point. Furthermore, your recent comments about damaging the SWTHG "as much as possible" have shown your colors. I didn't expect to say this, but I now think Sam has shown good leadership by banning you. You make his decision look better and better every time you lash out at someone on this forum.

Tad, I sought you out and I invited you to this forum. Your actions are demonstrating that I might have been mistaken. I was really hoping that you'd become a contributing member to this forum and thereby demonstrate that Jack and Davis were wrong to have banned you. But I may have been wrong and Sam may be making a better choice for his club than I have been making for the US Hawks. But that's up to you to determine Tad. I hope you'll stop just arguing with everyone and try to help build this organization.

Thanks in advance ... in case you surprise me.     

[Free]

I got a special deal with Satan.

You might want to research 'deals with satan' a bit more before making such long term commitments, my sarcastic friend. I also think there is some unwritten rule in writing that might limit sarcasm to under 10% of total expression lest the reader gets too confused about your actual meaning... just sayin..

There is a 'competition poll' going on at the backwaters of the the Jack Ax commercial data mining program.
It was started by Ryan Voight as the young gun eager to measure his pecker against others. I've always had a theory as to what drives competition and it seems to be the same things as war. Greed, power and domination.. moral relativity.. cheating.. lying.. corruption all come to mind as well as flying over dead 'comrades' bodies on the way to greatness.. winning.. (duh)

Maybe there will be a bag of coins in a bag tied a few feet off the ground that the less afluent of the sky warriers can dive, (and die) for, all for the benefit of a few seconds of thrilling video footage. Maybe Sam can ask his Regional Director about that as I no longer have a Regional Director and haven't had a real one since Ron Kenney.

If anyone happens to stumble into the "accident report black hole" you will likely find David Glovers' video recording of Willi Muller's 'death strafe' for a hundred dollars. It's never made a public appearance but I'm guessing it comes out for limited audience perusal at the highest levels of the U$HPA inner circle elite.

Competition ups the ante of deaths in hang gliding as it lures pilots into taking risks that they would not ordinarily take. The borg lawyer has that figured out and that is why he sits atop the black hole of accident reports.

Competition is big business for little people and corporations. There is money to be made and egos to exploit. The newest, latest, greatest equipment... pollution belching energy consumption enough to make Al Gore feel inadequate... the green Malthusian, Davis Straub, globe trotting the earth in an endless pecker measuring quest while hypocritically lecturing others that they should live in huts and eat grass..

How many heart rendering clips of sad looking polar bears standing on a chip of ice in a vast ocean has our nation of school children been exposed to? I've heard of poor indoctrinated children breaking out in uncontrollable sobbing as they are driven by construction sites, as they equate that with the destruction of the planet.

That is terrorism. Polar bear populations are expanding. CO2 has nothing to do with the real pollution that is aimed at destroying mankind and in the wake of that, is also destructive to other species. Mass dosing the clean water supply with poisons mass doses the entire cycle of water. Frogs and shrimp can't breed because their hormonal systems are screwed up from the water they live in. Carbon dioxide has nothing to do with it. CO2 is not a pollutant but it does make a hell of a foundation to levy a global tax on, to be paid to the same global elitist that are truley poisoning and killing the earth. Wake up people!

I'll challenge you engineer types and others that are concerned about the earth to take 15 minutes of your time to consider the implications of this youtube clip and give me your studied impressions afterward.
Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7 - AE911Truth.org
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZEvA8BCoBw


I tried to get the whore journalist Straub to view a two hour video
"The Obama Deception" before the last election but it was too long for his short attention span. Now look where that got us..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw


Here's another that I'm sure he didn't watch and you see why Straub is still parroting the idiot Paul Krugman in saying that we need to give even more bailouts to globalist bankers in their fiat ponzi money scheme that is sucking us down the black hole of fascist austerity..
Fall of the Republic HQ full length version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU


I don't suppose many of you will make it through any of these researched documentaries. If enough did and were awakened to what is really happening to us things could change for the better overnight. Ignoring the problem isn't going to make it go away. Living in a dream world, clouded by poisons, indoctrinated in misinformation is the true enemy of mankind. Leaving the earth on wings of fantasy for minutes or hours in time is a lovely experience but you still have to land sometime..

[Bob Kuczewski]

I haven't had a chance to watch them all yet, but I hope you don't mind that I added the embedded YouTube links so people could watch them within the forum.

[Free]

I haven't had a chance to watch them all yet, but I hope you don't mind that I added the embedded YouTube links so people could watch them within the forum.

Embedded links are cool. The last two (long ones) are not Obama bashing but agenda bashing.
The Obama agenda is an extension of the Bush agenda on steroids. The difference being that he can get away with much more because of the false perception of progressive liberalism. The left makes excuses for him whereas they would attack Bush for the same. A man of the people? Hogwash!

Hope and change? Yeah right.. you hope you get what you want but you get the change (for the worse) that Obama's owners have preplanned for you. Obama's owners are the same as G. W. Bush's owners.
Hopey dopey wishfull thinking delusions are now rationalized away in la la land. The terrorist are gonna get us.
Give up liberty to get safety... stupidity! Aaargh! The chemical lobotomies are working. The indoctrination is working. A lot of people are getting dumber and dumber and it isn't all their own doing. Psychopaths are running the show and we are essentially just lifes' actors playing out our scripted parts. But people can and are waking up. Those that insist on living in la la land may never wake up until their world gets rocked off it's axis... then it may be too late.

The long links are a good start to begin to understand the forces seemingly in control of our destiny.

The first, short link is the opening of the can of worms of 9-11 Building Seven collapse that any engineer should be able to grasp in a few minutes that 9-11 could not have happened as we have been told to believe. From that scientifically proveable lie comes all the infringements on our rights and freedom... a pre-stated goal of those that own Obama/Bush etc... puppets with teleprompters, lying to our face..

Physics question... How does a steel frame building fall through it's own footprint at the speed of gravity without it's core structure being pre-removed in some manor? Forget the rest for now, just answer me that..

More information at http://ae911truth.org/

[TadEareckson]

Then Sam was a good President to kick you off of the SWTHG forum.

It wasn't until AFTER Sam kicked me off the SWTHG forum that I wanted to attack and damage SWTHG as much as possible. Prior to that I wanted to help it.

It's kinda like if I find somebody in the woods half alive with his arm torn off and bleeding to death I want to help him - until I find out that he was shooting bears so he could sell their gall bladders to the Chinese for their folk medicine trade. Then I wanna see if the bear's OK.

You don't post often but when you've got something to say, you do it well.

Vaccinations, chemtrails, Darwin, Polar Bears, penguins, carbon dioxide?

You went on and on about everything else, but you didn't address that central point.

Then lemme try again.

The need for choice on the national level has been clear for some time. The HGAA, for example, was originally formed to be more of a grass roots organization than USHPA. However, it was quickly overtaken by those who again concentrated power and shunned opposing viewpoints.

What will keep the US Hawks from becoming another USHPA or HGAA?

You will ... hopefully. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Everyone has to do their part once in a while. If you see something that's not being done correctly, then it's your duty to speak out. One big difference between the US Hawks and other organizations is that the US Hawks really does honor the free speech of its members.

We believe that good decisions sometimes require a significant effort to dig into the facts. Sometimes arguments are heated, and that's not something to be feared or rejected. That's the process - painful or not - that leads to better decisions.

And here's what it says on The Davis Show...

It is a serious forum for pilots who wish to write cogently and engage the intellect of others.

...and The Jack Show...

To provide a friendly and positive, approachable community for people interested in the sport of HG
To provide a friendly community for Hang Glider pilots to hang out and discuss hang gliding

Please treat the admin as a regular user. As long as you follow the rules, there is NO CHANCE you will banned because you disagree with the admin. The admin would like to be part of this community too without having to walk on egg shells because people think his word holds more weight for whatever reason. It does not. But the admin will do his job as moderator when he has to. But please follow the rules and don't make him do it, he doesn't enjoy that part.

Guess NOBODY really means this stuff, huh?

Furthermore, your recent comments about damaging the SWTHG "as much as possible" have shown your colors.

I don't think I've been doing much in the way of chameleon tricks.

Tad Eareckson - 2011/02/14

Warren,

>
I wish I could but I believe I'm censored more places than anyone else here!
<

Let's find out.

Capitol Hang Glider Association (Cragin Shelton)
Skysailingtowing (Peter Birren)
HangGliding.org (Jack)
Paragliding Forum (Steve Uzochukwu)
Oz Report (Davis, with collaboration from Sam Kellner)
Houston Hang Gliding & Paragliding Association (popular demand)

And currently I've got a REAL good shot at:

TUGS (Jim Gaar)

Bob Kuczewski - 2011/02/15

Post any recommendations you like right here. In fact, let's start building our own Towing Committee. I think you should start a new topic for it, and let's hash it out ... without anyone being silenced.

TadEareckson - 2011/02/15

I've got a long list of hang gliding people that have proven over the course of a couple of posts or a couple of decades that they should never again be allowed to participate in and derail and sabotage discussions. And I'll tell y'all right now that Sam Kellner is pretty solidly on it.

I think I've got a pretty solid consistency points lead on ya.

I didn't expect to say this, but I now think Sam has shown good leadership by banning you.

Great precedent! I'm assuming I can claim a first for the US Hawks national and chapter systems?

You make his decision look better and better every time you lash out at someone on this forum.

1. Is it OK if I lash out against people on and/or controlling OTHER forums?

2. So all ya gotta do is join US Hawks or one of its chapters and you're off limits for scrutiny and criticism. COOL!

Your actions are demonstrating that I might have been mistaken.

Yeah, none of us is perfect. Bummer.

I was really hoping that you'd become a contributing member to this forum and thereby demonstrate that Jack and Davis were wrong to have banned you.

Well yeah, now it becomes obvious that they were ENTIRELY justified in banning me. (And you just aligned Sam with Jack and Davis. Thank you for the documentation.)

But I may have been wrong and Sam may be making a better choice for his club than I have been making for the US Hawks.

Yeah, obviously. I think US Hawks membership should be contingent upon a loyalty oath.

I hope you'll stop just arguing with everyone and try to help build this organization.

Right. It's not like US Hawks can tolerate opposing viewpoints, freedom, vigilance, duty, heated arguments, and good decisions at THIS fragile stage of development. Let's ignore all that just-for-show "principles" stuff and get this baby into the air! We can always get back to principles after we're firmly entrenched in the hang gliding community at large - some time when it's more convenient. Can't see anyone arguing with that!

P.S. If the ban comes off I'm perfectly happy to shift back into help mode.

[Bill Cummings]

Sorry to high jack this thread back on course but ----
“TAD--
It's a BIG mistake to define and think of hang gliders as foot

Launchable and landable aircraft and to foot launch and land them

in a lot of circumstances in which foot launches and landings

aren't necessary.

“2. The operative word in that sentence is PILOT. When there's only

one person on board he's also the Pilot In Command. In real

aviation that's the person who gets to call the shots on what goes

on with his plane.”

For now I’ll start with those two quotes. I’m 100% behind them but maybe even Tad isn’t fully 100% behind the second one like I am. I’m not sure.

I’ve had in my possession three different line tension (pressure) gauges for static boat and land towing. I got rid of all of them. Why? Because people at the tow vehicle were making decisions about what I needed just from watching the gauge. That isn’t giving me enough control as pilot in command to suit me.

I adjusted line tension with radio (sometimes water proofed radios) commands. If I pulled in to instantly take off line tension I didn’t want it back unless I commanded it. I witnessed this exact scenario where a pilot pulled in and the truck sped up and killed the pilot. (The driver was following constant line tension procedure but the pilot wasn‘t used to towing with a pressure gauge.)

Quote # 1 makes me think of platform boat towing with deep water landings on my belly and the glider’s floats.

Onlookers ask me which is safer, towing or foot launching. It’s really hard to compare since you can be doing both at the same time.

Towing can be safer than mountain launching or mountain launching can be safer than towing.
It depends.

Example: Rod Hauser blew a launch at Mingus Mt., in ‘93. If he had done a 180 like that while static towing down below at the Cottonwood Airport he would have had some down wind runway rash instead of impacting the cliff. If he had been doing a platform launch at the airport his chances of stalling a right tip would have been greatly reduced. The same with Aero towing at the airport using a launch dolly.
Rod was launching late at a morning, east facing, launch site. His friend, Don Clark, was in line behind Rod and Don backed off to bag-it and drag-it because it was getting near the end of usual launch window.
With the wind soon to be coming “over the back” this alone further separates the apples and oranges comparison.
There was a non flyer on his right wing wire which further corrupts our apples and oranges comparison of, which is safer, towing or foot launching?

On the safety difference issue we are approaching apples and grapefruit for a comparison determination. Can we even use Rods death to answer the question of which is safer towing or foot launching?
If Rod had survived his crash at Mingus and the next day blew a static launch at the airport would that get us closer to an apples and apples comparison after we looked at the glider damage? Or is it just too much of an unstudied statistical analysis situation due to all the variables that have to be considered?

Cliff launching is safer than towing if we page back to the post on this thread that describes a release from the truck malfunction. This hazard can be fine tuned out with a Switzer Release. Still, the cable running to it could get stepped on and stretched out of working order. Lots of stuff could go south. Let’s say that any type of truck nose release could freeze up or be bumped out of kilter for one reason or another and not work. This is why I like NOT to have my glider set at a pitch positive nose angle on the launch platform. When I launch in this manner I may possibly have no load at all on the Switzer Nose Release.

Having hand holds under your base tube is a must. To launch I get up to speed. For my glider it’s 32 mph air speed at my airport elevation. This speed is already enough to launch me without the towline and have enough maneuvering room to land even if the driver panics and hits the brake. I don’t have my driver go faster than my more than adequate (horn blowing) launch speed. Why? That’s how I want it! I’m pilot in command. If I want more speed I’ll say so over the radio.

When I say, “CLEAR!” The driver activates my nose release while I hold myself forward and also hold onto the hand holds keeping myself firmly in the launching yokes. When I see the nose has been released I rock myself back and let my fingers be stripped from the hand holds. If the nose release should fail I keep my self forward, hold my hand holds and say, by radio, “STOP TRUCK! STOP TRUCK! STOP TRUCK! If I see a thermal crossing the runway ahead of the truck after releasing the nose release I do the same thing. I’m ready to keep the tail up when the truck slows down. I reach forward, grab something, and hold the glider against the nose-over rack when the tail starts to drop.

See now this takes care of a nose release failure. Is that all that was keeping us from towing? If not lets discuss the other stuff.

For all the different towing junk that’s out there you can set up a procedure that will take into account a lot of the real world lack of standardization while we wait for the standardization to finally show up.

[Bob Kuczewski]

It wasn't until AFTER Sam kicked me off the SWTHG forum that I wanted to attack and damage SWTHG as much as possible. Prior to that I wanted to help it.

    . . . a lot of other "stuff" . . .

P.S. If the ban comes off I'm perfectly happy to shift back into help mode.

Here's a reality check for you Tad ...

Do you really think you were in "help mode" when Sam decided that he'd had enough?

Do you really honestly believe that?

[Bob Kuczewski]

When I say, “CLEAR!” The driver activates my nose release while I hold myself forward and also hold onto the hand holds keeping myself firmly in the launching yokes. When I see the nose has been released I rock myself back and let my fingers be stripped from the hand holds. If the nose release should fail I keep my self forward, hold my hand holds and say, by radio, “STOP TRUCK! STOP TRUCK! STOP TRUCK! If I see a thermal crossing the runway ahead of the truck after releasing the nose release I do the same thing. I’m ready to keep the tail up when the truck slows down. I reach forward, grab something, and hold the glider against the nose-over rack when the tail starts to drop.

Hey Bill,

Just reading that description scares me to death!!!      (Note to self: need an icon for being scared to death.)

But I'm sure it's something that a person can get used to ... eventually.     

Bob K.