[Rick Masters]

Mark Forbes has well earned his prominent place on this wall of shame. History should forever associate the name of "Mark G. Forbes" with the lowest points in the history of hang gliding.

I agree. But sadly, right up there with him, are all the confused hang glider pilots who think they need a Star Chamber https://www.britannica.com/topic/Court-of-Star-Chamber and parachutists in their hang gliding association.
    The old hang gliding association which we built has disintigrated and become something else.
    Something unredeemable.
    It's time to form a new USHGA.
    Let's not give it away, this time.

[SamKellner]

  YES  

[Bob Kuczewski]

Jim Gaar

In my opinion, Jim Gaar (blindrodie) has been supportive of many good things over the years. He's been a member of the Torrey Hawks for a long time. I know that Warren has reported negatively on Jim, and I would welcome some resolution to those complaints. But overall, I have considered Jim to be a positive contributor to the sport of hang gliding.

Jim certainly knew of the badgering Joe Faust was getting in the USHGRS topic because Jim added his own somewhat ambiguous post to that topic:

BOOOOM!

It's not clear what Jim's post was intended to convey, but it followed this post by Joe Faust:

sg, please start a topic on your concern about the mentioned matters. 

This topic concerns USHGRS.org that is with zero affiliation with clubs, associations, corporations, or special persons you mentioned. Thanks for fairly treating this topic. And consider BubbleBoy's conduct in the topic thread.
sg, you are insisting to answer your questions on a topic that is off topic and against your forum rules; are you baiting me so that I break your policy??? Not playing fair. 

FACT: USGRS.org had zero generative input from the guy you don't like; AFTER the USHGRS.org was fully independently born and launched, then, and only then did other people begin to comment and participate, including you and Bob. USHGRS.org is not carrying anyone's waters here to your forum; USHGRS.org stands on its own; it is a growth from Self-Soar Association's millieu; and deceased HG pilots have ever been esteemed in such flow. 

The full text of all related matters regarding the HGAA voting experiment is a necessary preamble for fair rehearsal of that topic. If you present all related text in a timed progressive fair way, then fair discussion could occur and I would then give my personal opinions; notice in the history that I stayed aside from that historic discussion. I have not found a way to judge the soul of persons. I support many things in our sport including your forum in many ways, despite disagreements; I treasure the value of challenges of difference as sources for further learning.

So Jim was aware of the topic, and yet he has remained completely silent on the abusive banning of Joe Faust. It's this silence - and the continued silence of others - that allows Jack Axaopoulos to continue to bully good people like Joe and so many others.

[JoeF]

At the moment then, I interpreted Jim's "Boom" as a recognition that from Jim's prior experience with sg, that sg was going to lower the "boom" with a "Boom" somehow within minutes. I took Jim's "Boom" as a simple declaration of a prediction on his part. Jim may concur on this or not; Jim?

[Bob Kuczewski]

I took Jim's "Boom" as a simple declaration of a prediction on his part. Jim may concur on this or not; Jim?

I would welcome Jim's thoughts, and he's always welcome to post here any time. But the place where Jim and others need to speak is on hanggliding.org. Good men and women should speak calmly and fairly - and repeatedly - until Jack Axaopoulos either corrects this abuse or is the only person left on hanggliding.org.

Thanks Eagle!

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[Free]

At the moment then, I interpreted Jim's "Boom" as a recognition that from Jim's prior experience with sg, that sg was going to lower the "boom" with a "Boom" somehow within minutes. I took Jim's "Boom" as a simple declaration of a prediction on his part. Jim may concur on this or not; Jim?

Jim Gaar should respond to several issues here but if history is followed then he probably will not.
It sounds like Bob might give him an award or something for being such an overall contributor to the sport when I know it is just the opposite.
Joe was right in that Rodie was expecting Jack to ban Joe.
Rodie has been instrumental in many bannings. Jim Gaar was probably top of the list for back channel input given to the drama queen, Jack Axaopoulos, before newby Doug Marley came along.
Gaar knew Jack's weakness and, like an arsonist admiring a good forest fire, got off on what was coming.

Gaar isn't going to stand up for Joe. Come to think of it I believe he has removed reference to the US Hawks in his signature file.
Jim Gaar is a liar and a thief. He has done more to harm hang gliding than good.

[Free]

I would welcome Jim's thoughts, and he's always welcome to post here any time.

Since he is a member of the Hawks, the organization could easily subpoena him to testify in his own behalf under threat of expulsion if he didn't.
Serious charges have been levied against him and it would only make sense that he should want to exonerate himself if those charges are untrue.
I have one question to ask of Jim Blindrodie Gaar that can prove he is or isn't an unrepentant thief.
Can I get this answer from a fellow Hawk or not?

[Free]

And by the way, I fully support this new "Wall of Shame" feature of the Hawks because the true history of events need to be published in as many ways as necessary for the truth to be known.
The details can be worked out in a rambling thread like this and then a condensed version with pertinent info geared for the short attention span crowd can be put up as a sticky that has separate chapters for each of various nominees.

Also, like to know what Frank's earlier objection to this undertaking might have been?
A private message will do if there is some strategic reason I'm not aware of.

[Bob Kuczewski]

And by the way, I fully support this new "Wall of Shame" feature ....

Thanks Warren. I've seen too many people's bans get swept under the carpet. It's time to make people responsible for their actions and inactions.

In my discussions with some pilots I tend to hear a lot of cognitive dissonance:

They will either say that hanggliding.org isn't important:

    Xxx: It should be no big deal to Joe. The site isn't that important.
    Bob: Will you speak out against Joe's ban?
    Xxx: No. I don't want to get banned myself.
    Bob: I thought you said it isn't that important?
    Xxx: < silence >

Or they will say it's too important for them to give up:

    Xxx: I don't want to get banned because it's too important to me because ______.
    Bob: Don't you think it might be important to Joe Faust because ______?
    Xxx: < silence >

The bottom line is simple. When the history of this dark episode is written, there will be those who stood up for Joe and those who didn't. There is no excuse for not speaking up other than putting one's own little agenda ahead of fairness to Joe Faust.

I know that this post (and topic) will cause some people to dig their heels in even deeper and I may lose a few friends. All I can say is that you're writing your own history. Think about what you want it to say. How will it sound when your best excuse for not speaking up was "Well I wanted to speak up for Joe, but I didn't because Bob was pushing too hard to get me to speak up for Joe." ?

[Rick Masters]

I know that this post (and topic) will cause some people to dig their heels in even deeper and I may lose a few friends.

Bob, some pretty respectable pilots who are fed up with both the USHPA and hanggliding.org have asked me to request of you to focus on the important work that must be done.
They are tired of this endless confrontational battle with the established hang gliding heirarchy and they want to see pilots presented with the opportunity to join a new organization dedicated exclusively to recreational hang gliding. They want to see that hierarchy replaced, not confronted.
Piling negative upon negative complaints on "Hot Topics" can not create the attraction we need.
Building a "Wall of Shame" is the last thing we need. It will dissuade participation.
No matter how substantial these complaints are, a never-ending gripe site cannot promote, protect and serve recreational hang gliding.
In fact, those who should be concerned about an alternative organization drawing away pilots from USHPA are cheering every gripe post because these posts continue to erect an unattractive bulwark against ever accomplishing anything meaningful.
___________________

In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good.
So, too, it is better to recapture an army entire than to destroy it, to capture a regiment, a detachment or a company entire than to destroy them.
Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
Thus the highest form of generalship is to balk the enemy's plans;
the next best is to prevent the junction of the enemy's forces;
the next in order is to attack the enemy's army in the field;
and the worst policy of all is to besiege walled cities.
    -- Sun Tzu