[Red]

. . . which was to perpetrate a LYING FRAUD on another HG forum.

I would sincerely like to know what Bob's "lying fraud" was/is. I've seen no "lying fraud" and, therefore, I see the big bolded words as intentional defamation on your part. If you don't know, a person can file a civil law suite against a person who acts to knowingly defame their character.

Scott,

It would be a lying fraud if I went somewhere and spouted off words that are not mine, pretending that they were my words. I have clearly stated here that the phrase refers ONLY to an action, a performance, which I have repeatedly refused to deliver. That phrase does not refer to any person, and I regret if anybody has misinterpreted my meaning there. I have personally set that issue to rights with Bob already.

Bob has ascribed motives to me which are NOT true, and my judgments are none of his business, anyway.

And you won't tell anyone else what your motives are either, right? Should we all begin guessing what your motives are until one of us gets it right? Forget that. I've already suggested that you not post here any more - for a while.

Right! No guessing needed. I do not need to explain anything to anybody; this one of is my Constitutional rights, which I did not check at the door here.

Last I saw, there are maybe 7.5 billion people on this Earth, most of whom did not say anything on HG.ORG about anything. I fail to understand why anybody would want *me* to say anything anywhere, let alone scripts written for me to deliver there. Almost anybody can do that, with only a handful of exceptions. Go ask these seven billion+ other people instead, and please don't accept any "excuses" if they refuse.

As for posting here or not, lately I have only responded (in every case) to people who think they should be telling me what to do and where to do it. I see no particular need to repeat my refusal again and again, really. There are plenty of other fish in the sea; nobody needs me to be their mailman.

With your permission, I may at times offer some knowledge or experience here to those who ask the HG community for such. I may not answer them if somebody responds with a good enough answer before me. If my responses do not meet your standards, you can petition Bob to ban me, or overshadow my poor answers with your own better answers.

[Bob Kuczewski]

It would be a lying fraud if I went somewhere and spouted off words that are not mine, pretending that they were my words. I have clearly stated here that the phrase refers ONLY to an action, a performance, which I have repeatedly refused to deliver. That phrase does not refer to any person, and I regret if anybody has misinterpreted my meaning there. I have personally set that issue to rights with Bob already.

Thanks. I haven't had a chance to go through all the posts carefully yet, but it would be good to add that clarification at some point. Thanks for helping to straighten it out.

I may at times offer some knowledge or experience here to those who ask the HG community for such.

With that positive thought in mind, I've given Chopper Girl a link to your web site. She's asking about plans for a safe minimalistic glider. I'm sure she'd welcome your advice.

[Free]

Sharing your Hawk underwear, hasn't changed a thing

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/48862.htm
Fake History. How The Money Power Controls Our Future By Controlling Our Past
https://firstworldwarhiddenhistory.word ... -evidence/
Fake History 3: From Burning Correspondence To Permanently Removing The Evidence

[Bob Kuczewski]

Thanks for the video Warren. I've only watched 4 minutes out of 73. I'll comment after watching the rest.

Please pass the salt.

I don't want to pass you the salt. You are asking me to commit a LYING FRAUD by asking me to pass you the salt when I don't want to do it!!!

I would sincerely like to know what Bob's "lying fraud" was/is. I've seen no "lying fraud" and, therefore, I see the big bolded words as intentional defamation on your part. 

I have clearly stated here that the phrase refers ONLY to an action, a performance, which I have repeatedly refused to deliver. That phrase does not refer to any person, and I regret if anybody has misinterpreted my meaning there.

I think we are making some progress. Red's current position is that my suggested posts were a request for him to commit a LYING FRAUD. Let's explore that.

For Red's claim to be true, I would have had to have known that Red did not agree with my suggestions. But I can not read Red's mind. So how could I possibly know if I was asking him to commit a "LYING FRAUD"? See the "pass the salt" example above. So just from a purely logical point of view, I could NOT have been asking Red to commit a LYING FRAUD unless Red feels that I can read his mind.

But let's go a step further. Why did I ask Red to speak up rather than asking Jack Ax or any of his pawns? There can only be one reasonable answer - I thought Red might agree with speaking up. I didn't know whether he would or wouldn't. Even to this day, I have no idea whether Red might change his mind and step up to defend Joe. The reason I lobbied Red (and Frank and Mike) wasn't because I thought they might all tell a lie. The reason was that I thought they might be in agreement and just need a little encouragement to actually turn their beliefs into posts.

So while I do appreciate Red's clarification that he's not calling me a LYING FRAUD, it is still incorrect to say that I encouraged him to commit a LYING FRAUD. It's incorrect firstly because I cannot know Red's views, and it's incorrect secondly because I really don't think Red even believes that Joe should have been banned.

That brings me to a key question that's never been explicitly answered by Red:

    Should Joe Faust have been banned from hanggliding.org?

There has been some artful dodging of that question. Some have argued:

    "Well, Jack owns the site, so he can ban anyone he wants."

That doesn't answer the question of whether Jack should have done it or not. That is, admittedly, a moral question. But moral questions are legitimate questions too. The question of "Should ..." brings in the issue of how we want the world to operate. We may never get there completely, but questions of "Should ..." at least can point us in the right direction.

So with all of that background, I pose the question to Red and anyone else who wants to comment:

    Should Joe Faust have been banned from hanggliding.org?

I think everybody knows my answer - No.
That answer is based on every rule of fairness and civilized discourse that I've learned throughout my entire life.

What's your answer?

[Free]

Thanks for the video Warren. I've only watched 4 minutes out of 73. I'll comment after watching the rest.

I haven't watched it all myself. It just came out today and is a bit long. Corbett always has excellent commentary but its going to be a history lesson..

[Bob Kuczewski]

I haven't watched it all myself. It just came out today and is a bit long.

I'll give you 73 minutes Warren. If you've read 1/100th of the posts I've written then I owe you more than that already.   

See you in 73 minutes!!

[Bob Kuczewski]

OK. 73 minutes of watching time with additional time to stop and take notes (below).

I am not surprised that there is confusion and dispute over what happened 100 years ago when we can't even get a handle on what happened in the last few months regarding Joe's banning - and that was all published word for word as it happened!!

The one quote that jumped out at me was at about 58 minutes and 25 seconds when he said:

        "Who's going to drill down on those details?"

Indeed, that is the challenge that we face with all injustices. Right here we have two topics that have tried to "drill down" into the causes of Joe's banning, and it's been an uphill battle to document it (yes, an uphill battle to drill down). Just as in your posted video, there are lots of people who want to sweep it under the carpet. Now I hear that Jack's entire "Basement" is locked up? Watch the last part of the video to see the parallel.

Thanks for the post Warren.

Cecil Rhodes - Rhodes Scholars

Norman Dodd: "Is there any means more effective than war assuming you want to affect the life of an entire people "

Kaiser Wilhelm

Barbara Tuckman's "Guns of August" account of "buttonholing"

"There's no good side in a war like this"

Mischaracterization of histoty

Margaret Macmillan

58:25 Who's going to drill down on those details?

Hidden History of WW1

Fake History 1-6

#3 Burning Correspondence to Permanently Removing The Evidence.

It was the Fort Knox of historical evidence.

"To the victor go the spoils and history is part of that booty."

[Bob Kuczewski]

This question remains unanswered ...

    Should Joe Faust have been banned from hanggliding.org?

[JoeF]

My answer:
Yes and No.

Yes: Reason: I just didn't fit well into that space.
I should not have been there in the first place.
I've gotten clearer about such matter, thanks to this recent processing;
thanks to all those who have been part of this process. And thanks to
US Hawks for a place to process such flows. There might come a time
when that space is modified so that I'd fit. I hope others are benefiting
from the process.

No: Reason: It was not my choice then to leave. I was following polices and being polite.

I am no longer trying to get back to being a poster in Jack's forum because of his published and practicing polices and ways and means. Thank you for your actions toward an unban result--appreciated. Even if unbanned, I'd not publish in Jack's forum until severe changes are made in his policies and practices. Many other avenues are available to share HG ideas, notes, and images!

Thanks, much lift to you an yours
and your projects,
Joe

[Bob Kuczewski]

When you let them drive you away ... they win.

I imagine that there was a lot of pressure felt by black people as they tried to make their way into segregated schools and segregated sports and segregated jobs and segregated neighborhoods. The bigots wanted to make them feel like they didn't belong so they could pressure them to go. I am sure many felt the pressure and backed down. The change was made by those who didn't.

Having said that, one of the great joys of knowing Joe Faust is his unique perspective on the world. He never fails to surprise me.